Transcript

Jake Hart:  Four, three, two, one. VR Workforce Studio, podcasting the sparks that ignite vocational rehabilitation through the inspiring stories of people with disabilities who have gone to work.

Flora Frazier:  Working in a field that I understand.

Jake Hart:  As well as the professionals who have helped them.

James Hall:  A job and a career, you got to look at how life-changing this is.

Jake Hart:  And the businesses who have filled their talent pipelines with workers that happen to have disabilities.

Debby Hopkins:  To help expand registered apprenticeship.

Jake Hart:  These are their stories.

Anonymous:  Because there’s such a great story to tell about people with disabilities.

Jake Hart:  Now, here are the hosts of the VR Workforce Studio, Rick Sizemore and Betsy Civilette.

Watch on YouTube @ https://youtu.be/1iCRAUu6xY0

Rick Sizemore (00:38):  Welcome to the VR Workforce Studio, the nation’s voice for those powerful and compelling success stories of vocational rehabilitation.

Betsy Civilette (00:48):  And today’s episode takes us to new heights, literally.

Rick Sizemore (00:52):  That’s right. In celebration of Groundhog Job Shadow Day, we’re spotlighting an extraordinary opportunity happening on Virginia’s Eastern Shore, the Aerospace Orientations and Transition Academies through DAR’s pre-employment transition services program. DARS supports students with disabilities beginning at age 14 from five core pre-ed services, including job exploration, work-based learning, counseling on educational and training options, workplace readiness, and an introduction to self-advocacy.

Betsy Civilette (01:29):  And those services are coming to life through hands-on aerospace programming near NASA’s Wallops Island Flight Facility in partnership with Sentinel Robotics Solutions, Eastern Shore Community College, and the Eastern Shore Community Services Board. Seven transitions academies completed. 30 students served in five aerospace orientations, reaching 25 participants. That’s a lot of success. Students love this program. They identify new career goals. Parents become more engaged and schools incorporate feedback into their IEP planning.

Rick Sizemore (02:06):  That’s right. We’re joined by three voices who can help us bring this story to life, Robin Sexauer, who’s been on this podcast many times, an absolute hero of mine from the Eastern Shore of Virginia. She is a certified rehabilitation counselor working with the Virginia Department for Aging and Rehabilitative Services. We’re also joined by Allison Clark, who is an unmanned aerial system training and flight technician at Sentinel Robotic Solutions, and of course, student participant Grant Davidson. Welcome to the VR Workforce Studio Grant. Let’s start with you. Tell us a little about yourself, what grade you’re in, and how you became connected with vocational rehabilitation. We also want to welcome Michelle Grant’s mom, who’s with Grant, offering some assistance with his communication throughout the interview. Grant, tell us about yourself.

Grant Davidson (03:04):  I graduated Northampton High School last last year. Grant’s Grinds Coffee Company. I own Grant’s Grinds Coffee Company.

Betsy Civilette (03:27):  Grant, if you’re comfortable sharing, how has your disability shaped your educational journey so far?

Michelle Davidson (03:34):  What is your disability. (Grant responds cerebral palsy) And do you do things different?

Grant Davidson (03:41):  Yes.

Michelle Davidson (03:44):  Can you not do things or how do you do things?

Grant Davidson (03:48):   Different, but I could do it yourself.

Rick Sizemore (03:51):  Well, we understand that you’ve been doing some amazing things and maybe a little bit of the communication challenged you, but your abilities absolutely were the spotlight in this camp. What led you to the decision to get involved with aerospace camp? Mom, can you help us?

Grant Davidson (04:10):  It sounded fun and I had fun. Wanted

Michelle Davidson (04:17):  To learn new things.

Grant Davidson (04:19): Yeah.

Michelle Davidson (04:20):  Ms. Robin said it would be fun.

Grant Davidson (04:23):  Yes.

Rick Sizemore (04:23):  Mom, can you help us out a little bit here? How long has Grant been working with DARS?

Michelle Davidson (04:30):  Grant has been working with Robin for the last three years, and she’s supported him in seeking out educational opportunities like the Aerospace Camp. She’s also supported him with his small business he started four years ago, Grant’s Grines. She helps advocate for Grant. She’s looking at getting him into some additional training opportunities, but this was his first formalized training that he attended with DARS.

Betsy Civilette (05:03):  When you got to aerospace camp, what did you actually get to do? Tell us about the hands-on experience.

Grant Davidson (05:11): I flew the …Drone

Michelle Davidson (05:15):  (Rick interjects – I’m going to pull up a picture available on YouTube @vrworkforcestudio) – He learned a lot of information, the rules and things of drone regulations and things like that as well. And he got to practice teamwork by being integrated in a class with other people with various disabilities.

Rick Sizemore (05:35):  Grant, I’m not sure if you and your mom can see the photograph we have up on the screen, (Check youtube @vrworkforcestudio) but it’s a photo of you from the camp. You’re in the gym and it looks like you’re getting ready to take off. Tell us about that. And mom, feel free to jump in here, help us out. We’ve got a little bit of communication challenge, but I want to make certain that that doesn’t get in the way of just how exciting this entire venture is.

Michelle Davidson (06:02):  So this is a picture of Grant. He attended camp with his sister. And I think this moment is one of the big surprises at camp. Can you tell us what was happening in this picture, Grant?

Grant Davidson (06:15):  I ran the drone into my head.

Michelle Davidson (06:20):  He ran the drone into his head.

Betsy Civilette (06:23): Into your head??????

Michelle Davidson (06:24):  So we quickly learned that it takes a lot of skill and practice to manipulate the drone and fly it where you want to go. He also ended up flying it through the obstacle course, which there was a lot of practice sessions on this. And he ended up being able to manipulate the controls and drive it through the hoops in various obstacle course barriers and things. He did that really well. And they had a final graduation day where they demonstrated their skills and he did wonderful on that day. He made a lot of peer friendships at camp and he also learned a lot of rules, which even though it’s been over a year, he still knows and can recite all of the different regulations and things.

Rick Sizemore (07:24):  That’s so awesome. Our next question is, what surprised you most? And I’m going to jump in here and say probably running a drone into your head had to be pretty surprising. And yet you were able to do so very well in terms of moving that drone around and through the obstacle course. Mom, understanding Grant the way you do and knowing that sometimes verbal communication is a struggle. It’s important here, I think, to recognize that Grant was able to perform extremely well in this camp and was able to move that drone through the obstacle course.

Michelle Davidson (08:02):  That’s right. He has intellectual disability as well, but because they made the content so interesting and fun, he retained that information really well. He also has to use really specific motor skills to fly a drone. And the instructors were very patient and very willing to help him. So those kind of motor skills, the intellectual skills, memorization, they did have an exam that they took at the end. He did pass that really well. So the camp itself really was for people with just different disabilities and different abilities. And I think it was truly a caveat to the people who put it on and Robin who was there each day to really let these students excel and have a really fun time and learn teamwork and build peer relationships at the same time.

Betsy Civilette (09:08):  Well, if you could share with us, how has this experience changed how you’ll think about your future career grant?

Grant Davidson (09:19):  Maybe one day I could bring coffee with drones.

Michelle Davidson (09:31):  Yes. Grant has his coffee company and he envisions someday he can fly the drone around Cape Charles delivering bags of coffee. He delivers it on his wheelchair golf cart, but he sees a future in delivering coffee with his drone as well.

Betsy Civilette (09:51):  That’s fascinating. Where are these beans? Are they local or just from the …

Michelle Davidson (09:57):  Where do you get your beans from?

Grant Davidson (10:01): Norfolk Coffee and Tea. Okay.

Betsy Civilette (10:05):  So you’re supporting a local business and have your own business one day.

Michelle Davidson (10:11):  He puts his stickers on and he delivers … He has quite a bit of clients in Cape Charles and he delivers coffee to them and he also ships it nationwide.

Rick Sizemore (10:23): We’ll be sure to put a link in our show notes to Grant’s Grinds. He’s making coffee. He’s an entrepreneur and now he’s taking on drones. How has being able to operate a drone affected your confidence, Grant, and can you expand your reach using drones with Grant’s grinds?

Michelle Davidson (10:45):  So he’s happy that he completed some college too now. Right, Grant?

Grant Davidson: Yes.

Betsy Civilette (10:52):  If another student, Grant, was unsure about trying an academy like this or everything you’ve been experiencing, what would you tell them?

Grant Davidson (11:02):  Just try and don’t be scared.

Michelle Davidson (11:11):  Don’t be scared to try new things because sometimes they’re hard. And if you can’t do it yourself, what do you do?

Grant Davidson (11:20):  Ask for help.

Rick Sizemore (11:21):  Allison, tell us about Sentinel Robotics Solutions and what you’re doing to support people with disabilities.

Allison Clark (11:28):  So Sentinel Robotics Solutions is a small woman-owned business located right on Wallops Island, Virginia. We handle all kinds of business land, air, sea. We’re helping with civilian applications of drones. We’re helping with military applications of drones. We have helped many different companies with our drone work. So we have certified pilots and we go do safety inspections for power lines. We’re doing mapping for NASA. We’re helping with insurance agents and teaching them how to fly drones so they can do surveys. We do a lot of different drone applications because drones are solving problems in many different job industries. So my favorite part, something that I am leading now, as I’ve been brought on since last year, is I am helping with the DARS program and teaching students about aerospace and about drones, unmanned aircraft systems, and teaching them that there are many jobs available because of drones and how drones are being used to solve problems.

(12:53):  So when I am teaching, I really get excited to see different students at different levels and just seeing the growth with each student. That’s what inspires me the most because for me, I kind of boxed myself in when I first met a drone pilot. I was on a movie set and I saw a drone pilot and I thought, “Oh, that looks too hard to fly a drone and it’s not for me. ” And then I just remember kicking myself later thinking, “Why did I think that? Why did I box myself in? ” So I eventually got my license, realized I can do this, and I want to help people who box themselves in think, “Oh, I can’t do that. It looks too Hard.”

Betsy Civilette (13:42):  Well, Allison, why did Sentinel partner with DARS to support these aerospace academies?

Allison Clark (13:49):  Well, I think they saw the opportunity. So the owners and Jason Taylor who started the program with Robin, they saw the opportunity to teach students. They also saw how we’re doing these drone projects and helping in the industries. We’re actually out in the field doing flights and missions and understanding that you shouldn’t limit yourself, that we can actually teach students with disabilities what they can do. There’s different roles where people don’t think about it. I have a visual observer, Kaleb, who graduated from the program. He is actually looking at where the drone is in the sky while I’m operating it. And it’s a great position because no, you don’t necessarily need to know how to read, but as long as you know the rules, okay, let’s make sure the drone doesn’t get too close to this controlled airspace or let’s make sure Allison doesn’t crash that drone into a tree.

(15:01): He’s a visual observer, keeping everything safe so that I can more efficiently do my job. And I just can’t imagine flying without a visual observer because it’s such as the safety protocol that we have in our company. So thinking of roles like that, we try to think about how we can help students realize there are roles for you. And let’s say maybe you don’t like being outside and being a visual observer, maybe you’re more into art and creativity. There are drone light shows happening where people have to design these drone light shows, just all the beautiful displays of art that come from the light shows. That’s something they can look into doing. So I just get excited because I will meet each student and see where they’re at and say, “Okay, this is how drones are being used in this industry that you’re interested in. ” So just the excitement of it all and just why should we limit what students are capable of  – was a big part.

(16:09):  But yeah, it was through Jason Taylor. His vision for the program was to grow the DARS program and it’s now statewide. So now he’s hired me on to keep growing it and it’s just a very exciting thing for us.

Rick Sizemore (16:23): That is so awesome. In many ways, drones level the playing field for people with disabilities. It gives them a great opportunity, and in this case, even to expand a business process. And so we hear it over and over. You’re probably not going to get a job exclusively operating drones, but there’s so many ways that having that skill of operating a drone can help you move into the workforce. So quickly, we don’t have a lot of time to talk about this, but you’re located near a NASA facility, the one at Wallops Island. Does that elevate the academy when we’re talking about drones and technology, especially for students with disabilities?

Allison Clark (17:04): Yes, I think it does because you think about NASA, we’ve done mapping missions for them for the launchpad. There’s a lot of opportunity because when NASA brings in these contracts, there’s more jobs available. So being in the network and networking with these people, there’s more opportunity for everyone. There’s being on the runway and different jobs that people don’t think about that special needs you can look into. It’s just you didn’t know it existed. So that is an opportunity that we have here is having an actual launch path where rockets are taking on and all the jobs that help make that happen.

Betsy Civilette (17:51):  Right. And from your perspective, Allison, what skills are students developing that translate directly into workforce readiness?

Allison Clark (18:03):

The skill of … To me, most inspiring is tenacity and not giving up. You see some students who give up and then realize, “Oh, I can keep flying a drone and it’s going to crash and that’s okay.” And they get better throughout one day where they’re actually able to do an obstacle course like Grant did. I think with students, seeing them grow is really important. And just the workplace readiness, they’re learning about the rules of airspace, which a lot of people don’t know. People who fly drones for fun don’t even know that you’re supposed to have a certificate to fly recreationally. And the students we have in our programs, they know, “Oh, I have to get this certificate and that’s going to help me fly safely even for fun.”

Rick Sizemore (19:00):  Let’s move into a discussion with the bigger picture in mind, Robin. How does the academy connect all this to Pre-ETS and then help students play in a pathway to the workforce?

Robin Sexauer (19:13):  Okay. The academies and the orientation have really hit every box in the five Pre-ETS ed core services. So with job exploration, students are being exposed to career paths that they had never considered prior to. The employers actually come to the lunch hours. We have a lunch and learn during the camps and an employer, we have different speakers that come and actually explain how they’re utilizing drones in the workforce. We had consumers, a lot of them that wanted to be gamers, and we don’t have those opportunities for gamers. So that’s how this program started off. And we connected instantly with Sentinel Robotics and the program took off after just meeting for two months, but the program was taking place. It gives the consumers an opportunity to learn about aerospace, and they’re also learning about college. As Grant said, his family members had gone to college and having the opportunity to become a college student and explore that through career exploration onsite at a college was an amazing experience for these students.

(20:23):  I had one student from Exmore that he thought it was so cool to be able to tell his friends he couldn’t hang with them that week because he was going to college and never thought he could be. So it really hits a lot of the

(20:35):  Opportunities for them in the core services.

Betsy Civilette (20:39):  And in the context of Groundhog Job Shadow Month in February, this feels like job shadowing elevated to the next level. Would you agree?

Robin Sexauer (20:50):  Definitely, because they are actually job shadowing with Sentinel Robotics, learning from their staff directly what’s involved in those careers and actually learning side by side with them. So this is more of a hands-on job shadowing experience where they get to work with Sentinel robotic staff, get the input. And we had a fellow law enforcement officer at the last orientation on Chincoteague, and he was so enthusiastic about the program that he was signing his staff up for it. So they got the opportunity to also learn about law enforcement, and that individual explained to them how advantageous this program would be for the students that wanted to pursue law enforcement. So it really hits a lot of the boxes with the job shadowing program because the speakers and the staff really provided a lot of information on all kinds of careers utilizing drones.

Betsy Civilette (21:48):  Right. Is that Kaleb there helping him? (See video @vrworkforcestudio on YouTube)

Robin Sexauer (21:51): Yes. Kaleb is there and that’s Grant’s dad with him.

Betsy Civilette (21:55): How wonderful does that full circle that Kaleb went through the program and now he’s helping others. That’s wonderful.

Rick Sizemore (22:03): We wanted to put that picture in there because there’s a payoff, not only for students, but for parents as well. And thank you to each parent who’s gotten involved in this.

Robin Sexauer (22:13):  And I thank everybody. I always say my motto with DARS is always, it takes a village. And the partnerships that have been created have been huge. The community services board partnered with us as well to make these programs happening by providing transportation for free. So that guaranteed student participation and the parent participation increased, I would say almost 95% through DARS with this because parents are invited to attend and families. We had a five-year-old attend with her mom and she operated the controllers as well as some of the adults. It was amazing. But by allowing that, parents actually, again, saw their student in a college environment, which they didn’t necessarily think would ever happen. And parents like Michelle and her husband and her family, his sister came, they all came. The graduation day is a huge day because we’re recognizing the skills that were acquired and they get to demonstrate those skills.

(23:13):  And they receive a lot of resource information at that time. The community college gives them t-shirts. And so it’s really just a wonderful celebration of a week-long academy that they enjoyed, they loved, and the community college provides the place and the meals, and it’s just a wonderful opportunity. I attend every day because I love to see the growth in five days. We had a student attend one of the orientations on Chincoteague, and in all of my counseling sessions, she rarely says two words, but when I got to Chincoteague at the orientation, she said, Robin, I love it. And she was beaming. She was really having a good time and that really, it made everything worth it. And so people like Grant, and if I had a million parents like the Davidsons, I would be so happy because their participation and support with Grant has just been phenomenal.

(24:04): And they’ve taught me a lot of things. So hats off to them and I really appreciate Grant participating today and all the support from everyone.

Betsy Civilette (24:13):  So bottom line, the message to families, it sounds like is participation is really not optional. They really get this, they should be engaged as well to take advantage of this opportunity.

Robin Sexauer (24:26):  Yes, yes. Because they have fun seeing the growth in their child and how, as everyone said, the communication skills improve, it’s a team participation, they make friends from other schools.

Rick Sizemore (24:41):  This is what Pre-ETS transition services really look like. Innovation meets partnership. Students are exploring aerospace careers. They’re looking at the industry and they’re looking at their futures. Families are engaged, schools are involved.

Betsy Civilette (24:58):  And during Groundhog Job Shadow Month, we’re reminded that sometimes following a shadow can lead you all the way to the stars.

Rick Sizemore (25:06): Grant, Allison, Robin, thank you for being with us today.

Grant Davidson (25:09):  Thank you.

Betsy Civilette (25:12): Well, Grant, it’s great meeting you Aim High.

Rick Sizemore (25:14):  And keep building pathways to the workforce.  (Singers: VR Workforce Studio.) As we continue celebrating Job Shadow Month and Career and Technical Education Month, we’re highlighting something truly powerful happening as the Virginia Department for Aging and Rehabilitative Services partners with key providers for a showcase event scheduled in April this year.

Betsy Civilette (25:40):  Yes, Rick. On April 30th, in fact, Wilson Workforce and community partners will host the Pathways to Possibilities Inclusion and Transition Fair, an event designed to connect students with disabilities and their families to real opportunities, resources, and real futures.

Rick Sizemore (25:59):  Yeah. Joining us to talk about this is the director of Wilson Workforce and Rehabilitation Center. Alison Shaner. Alison, welcome back to the VR Workforce Studio.

Alison Shaner (26:09):  Thank you, Rick and Betsy. It is always a pleasure to join you and share what’s happening at Wilson Workforce and Rehabilitation Center.

Betsy Civilette (26:16):  Well, Alison, tell us about Pathways to Possibilities. What is this event and how did it come together?

Alison Shaner (26:23):  Yes. So Pathways to Possibilities is an inclusion and transition fair designed to connect students with disabilities and their families to real opportunities, resources and potential futures. Last year, we worked collaboratively with our local school divisions to host a transition fair, and we also held a separate Autism Awareness fair on campus. And this year we decided to combine those two events into one larger event. This event came together with our partners in local school divisions, including Augusta County Schools, Stanton City Schools, and Waynesboro City Schools. We share a common goal of successfully supporting students as they transition from school to the post-secondary world.

Rick Sizemore (27:07):  So who are all the partners that are involved in this event?

Alison Shaner (27:10):  Yes. So we work closely with Augusta County Public Schools, Stanton City Schools, Waynesboro Schools, Virginia Department for Aging “and Rehabilitative Services,” and then of course, WWRC staff and teams here.

Betsy Civilette (27:23):  Well, Alison, community data shows that on average, 77% of students with disabilities are engaged in education, employment, or training after high school. What does this data tell us and why is this fair and important response?

Alison Shaner (27:41):  So that statistic tells us that there’s still a gap, right? So while 77% is progress, it means that nearly one in four students with disabilities are not engaged in either education, employment, or training after high school. So this fair is our proactive response to that gap. We are bringing those resources directly to students and families so they can start planning early and with confidence.

Rick Sizemore (28:06):  Yeah, that’s awesome. For a parent listening right now, maybe with a middle or a high school student, what will they experience if they walk through the doors here April 30th?

Alison Shaner (28:18):  So we are hoping that they will find a vibrant and exciting interactive environment here at WWRC on that day. We have so many organizations that are going to be present. DARS and WWRC, obviously, our local school divisions. We also have PEATC, which is the Parent Educational Advocacy Training Center here. We will have colleges, including JMU, Blue Ridge Community College and VCU. We also have our workforce development partners from Virginia Works that will be present. Virginia Community Services Board will be represented and Choice Group, plus so many more that are going to come and share their expertise and knowledge with families.

Betsy Civilette (29:02): How does this reflect the center’s broader mission?

Alison Shaner (29:07):  Yes. So our mission is to empower individuals with disabilities to achieve independence through competitive integrated employment. And so we believe that this event is a great opportunity to give students and families a firsthand look at those possibilities. Exposure to a campus like WWRC can be a game changer. It helps students visualize their future and realize that meaningful careers are within reach.

Rick Sizemore (29:33):  What does this kind of partnership say about our agency and those involved and their willingness to collaborate? But more importantly, why is that critical to transition planning?

Alison Shaner (29:46):  It is so important for our agency and for our partners in the community to work together to create those seamless pathways for students with disabilities. It is not something that a single agency can do alone. It really does require everyone coming to the table and bringing their expertise for the benefit of students.

Betsy Civilette (30:07):  Absolutely. So Alison, beyond April 30th, what would success look like for this event?

Alison Shaner (30:14):  So ultimately success is when students leave high school with a clear plan and they have the support they need to achieve it. We also know that we are hoping to increase overall awareness of the resources that are available for families and students. We want more students to be engaged in education, training and employment after high school. So again, moving that number from 77 even higher, what can we do to close that gap? We also hope to see increased referrals to vocational rehabilitation or DARS earlier in the process. The earlier we can start working with students, the more likely we are to have positive outcomes. And we want families to move forward feeling confident about their future.

Rick Sizemore (30:58):  Yeah. Alison, directing this great facility, what excites you most about hosting a program like Pathways to Possibilities?

Alison Shaner (31:08):  I’m excited about the energy that this event will bring. It is so much fun to see students and families exploring and connecting with those resources and those partnerships so that it does not have to be a time of fear, but actually a time of excitement and opportunity. And so that’s what really makes this worthwhile and makes this an exciting event for me personally, as well as for the center, because it really is about creating those real pathways to independence and having meaningful lives just like we all want.

Betsy Civilette (31:39):  The Pathways to Possibilities Inclusion and Transition Fair will be held at Wilson Workforce and Rehabilitation Center on April 30th, 2026 from 3:00 to 6:00 PM.

Rick Sizemore (31:51):  Alison, thank you for your leadership and for continuing building those real and meaningful careers for students across the Commonwealth. Thank you for joining us on the show today. Yes,

Alison Shaner (32:01):  Thank you. Thank you so much.

Singers: (32:06):  VR Workforce Studio and The Clearinghouse Update with Heather Servais.

Rick Sizemore (32:19): Well, welcome Heather, Grant’s story about the Aerospace Camp is just a great example of job shadow opportunities. And I understand you have some resources on STEM opportunities.

Heather Servais (32:35):  Absolutely. After hearing a story, it made me think of some amazing new training modules that we have that came from STEM UP, which is a disability innovation grant project that builds career pathways to help support VR individuals with disabilities in preparing for jobs in science, technology, engineering, math, or medicine fields. And what I love about these training modules, that they can be used by individuals on a self-study. So if you’re thinking about preparing for a job in these fields or by VR counselors or service providers who want to work through with their customers, these training modules cover a lot of different topics like the importance of mentoring, career exploration. We heard a little bit about the job shadowing, so maybe you can’t get to a site. So this training module offers some virtual workplace tours. We talk through employment essentials. There’s even some motivational speakers who have gone through their own career journey that share their path.

(33:34):  And so this is a great way for folks who are thinking about getting into STEM fields to prepare and feel a little bit more ready in their job searching process.

Rick Sizemore (33:44):  Absolutely.

Heather Servais (33:46):  The second resource I have is a guide. It’s called Plan Your Future: A Guide to Vocational Rehabilitation for Deaf Youth, and it’s made by the National Deaf Center. And it’s a guide that connects, for deaf youth, how VR works. So when we think about the important services that VR offers and the training and the employment supports, it spells out VR eligibility and talks about Pre-ETS. There’s also just a lot of tips for how to work with the VR counselor and a lot of real world examples from around the country on how VR can work with folks who are deaf. So individuals with disabilities who are considering working with VR, this is a great tool to prepare for those meetings and help you make informed decisions about your education and career goals. It’s also a great tool for families that can use it to support their youth during their transition planning, and it helps you really determine what you need as you’re going through this transition process and to better understand how VR can support those long-term employment and career growth goals.

Rick Sizemore (34:43):  Well, that’s so awesome. Well, we’re looking forward to the CSAVR spring conference. I know you’ll be there. Betsy and I will be there for the opening session. So if you listen to this podcast, you’re going to be at CSAVR’s spring conference. Be sure and say hello to us. Tell us what you like about the podcast, what you’d like to see, especially this NCRTM special segment of the program. Thank you, Heather.

Heather Servais (35:09): Thanks, Rick.