Transcript

Jake Hart:  Four, three, two, one. VR Workforce Studio, podcasting the sparks that ignite vocational rehabilitation through the inspiring stories of people with disabilities who have gone to work.

Flora Frazier:  Working in a field that I understand.

Jake Hart:  As well as the professionals who have helped them.

James Hall:  A job and a career, you got to look at how life-changing this is.

Jake Hart:  And the businesses who have filled their talent pipelines with workers that happen to have disabilities.

Debby Hopkins:  To help expand registered apprenticeship.

Jake Hart:  These are their stories.

Anonymous:  Because there’s such a great story to tell about people with disabilities.

Jake Hart:  Now, here are the hosts of the VR Workforce Studio, Rick Sizemore and Betsy Civilette.

VR Workforce Studio Singers (00:00):  VR Workforce Studio. Podcasting the Sparks that ignite vocational rehabilitation through the inspiring stories of people with disabilities who have gone to work.

Anonymous:  (00:12): Working in a field that I understand.

VR Workforce Studio Singers (00:14): As well as the professionals who have helped them. A

James Hall  (00:16): Job and a career. You got to look at how life-changing this is.

Jake Hart (00:19): And the businesses who have filled their talent pipelines with workers that happen to have disabilities.

Debby Hopkins (00:24): To help expand registered apprenticeship.

Jake Hart (00:26): These are their stories.

Spokesperson  (00:28): Because there’s such a great story to tell about people with disabilities.

Jake Hart (00:31): Now here are the hosts of the VR Workforce Studio, Rick Sizemore and Betsy Civilette.

Rick Sizemore (00:38): Welcome to another episode of the VR Workforce Studio, podcasting the sparks that ignite vocational rehabilitation.

Betsy Civilette (00:46): Today’s episode highlights one of the most exciting workforce strategies currently transforming vocational rehabilitation across the country. Registered apprenticeships. And you’ll hear a remarkable story of career change, perseverance, and opportunity. Followed later in the program by a nationally recognized motivational speaker, Hassan Davis, known by many as The Hope Dealer.

Rick Sizemore (01:11): The Hope Dealer. It’s going to be a good show. Many people think apprenticeships exist only for the skilled trades, electricians, plumbers, HVAC, construction, the traditional ones that we all think about when we’re talking about apprenticeships. But today’s guest demonstrates that apprenticeships are opening doors into careers many people have never even considered. We welcome Amanda Tibbets to the VR Workforce Studio. Welcome, Amanda.

Amanda Tibbets (01:42): Thank you. Good to be here today.

Rick Sizemore (01:44): Yeah. Before we talk about apprenticeships, we’d love for our listeners simply to get a little about your story and yourself. So tell us about Amanda.

Amanda Tibbets (01:55): Well, I’m a bit of a Virginia transplant, and I actually am originally from Kentucky, and I majored in education. I got a degree in special education and elementary education at the University of Kentucky. And I taught for about six years in Kentucky, and I felt as though as I approached the time when I should be getting my master’s when I was teaching special education, I wondered, was it for me? So I decided that it wasn’t, and I kind of transitioned out of that and I didn’t have a plan at that time, but what I had a talent for was making jewelry. So I decided that I would learn the best way I could to learn how to make jewelry. I went to a little school in Georgia at that time to learn how to form wire jewelry, and I would go around and I would sell at different markets.

(02:49):  And of course, that wasn’t a lasting career for me simply because it didn’t bring a lot of money into my family. So my husband and I decided we would open a food truck after that. That’s exciting. Yes. And when he first said, “Hey, why don’t we open a food truck?” I was like, “You’re nuts. We’re not going to do that.” Because we’re sitting on this beach in Jamaica on vacation and he’s like, “Let’s make a jerk chicken food truck.” And you’re crazy. No, no, no. But I went along with it, and we did that for about four years or so. And we were actually pretty successful at it, but we decided that we would end the business when we moved to Virginia for his job. So I didn’t really have a career at that point in time. We decided to start a family when we moved to Virginia.

(03:38):  So I have one daughter now, and I stayed home with her for just a bit, about 10 years, because I just really wanted to be home for her. But after that, I kind of needed a career, so I turned back to teaching. And this time, my foray was into kindergarten because that was really genuinely what I felt like I wanted to do. I was like, “This is it. This is what I’m going to do the rest of my life. I’m going to retire from this.” And I was entering right at the time of the COVID pandemic. And I always say that as people were running out of the building during COVID, I ran right in.

(04:11):  Wow. Yeah. But as I approached another point in my career where I needed to make a big decision about was I going to continue teaching, I decided no, it wasn’t for me. And I was burnt out and I needed to figure out something else to do that I could feel like I could do for many, many years. The stresses of teaching, they were getting onto me simply because the demand is a lot, and I always kind of felt like I could never do enough when it comes to teaching. It’s a great job and I was very good with the children, but at the same time, I knew that I could not give my full self to it if I wasn’t completely committed to it. So I decided I would try to move careers at that point in time. And I had discovered that I had hearing loss early on in my teaching career when I went back to teaching.

(05:16):  And I got my hearing tested and I needed hearing aids, so I reached out to DARS and they got me fit with hearing aids. So my journey with DARS, DARS started there.

Betsy Civilette (05:31):  Wow. Well, your career path has certainly not been a straight line. Teacher, business owner, food truck, that’s a hard business to be now hearing aid specialist. So you connect with DARS. Now walk us through that journey.

Amanda Tibbets (05:48): So I connected through DARS because I was having some trouble hearing my students during COVID. And as we all know, in 2020, we were all wearing masks and I’m trying to teach children how to read and I cannot hear the sounds they’re making behind those masks. It doesn’t matter how close I am to them, which at that point in time it wasn’t okay to be close to them. So

(06:13):  My husband had kind of been on me for a number of years about going to get a hearing test because he felt that I was struggling with it. But like many of the clients I see today, I kind of was in a little bit of denial about that. So it became very obvious at that point in time when I was in my classroom that this is a problem. So I went and got tested and it was confirmed that I did have a hearing loss. And in fact, it was the kind of hearing loss that would make it impossible to be able to hear children because they’re so high-pitched. So I was like, “Wow, what am I going to do if I need hearing aids?” I didn’t know what to do. So my husband for many years had worked at the state in Kentucky, and he said, “Well, why don’t we find the version of vocational rehab here?” And lo and behold, we found ours and I reached out to them and said, “Hey, I have this hearing loss.

(07:04):  I’m a teacher and I’m struggling in my job.” And they were able to get me hearing aids and it changed my life. I was actually finally able to come to terms with the fact that I had a hearing loss. And it was amazing to be able to have that service provided for me. And it was wonderful. I loved that I was able to actually engage back in life again.

Rick Sizemore (07:27): Well, let me ask this. Did the fact that you had the hearing deficits and you were working through those, that ultimately became the doorway to you going into a new profession?

Amanda Tibbets (07:40): Yes, yes. Actually it did. I know, I know. We get put in places in certain times and it feels like it’s meant to be. So I was going in for supplies one day and into my hearing aid place where I had gotten my hearing aids from. And I realized that they were very busy and I found out that they had a third specialist that they were meeting. They weren’t really advertising for it, but it was a great need just by talking to the owner. He was busy and needed a third person again, and that person that they had, I think she had retired in about 2021. So just knowing that that opportunity was out there, I though about it for a few days, maybe a couple weeks, and I was like, “I wonder if I could do that. I wonder if I could transition into a role like that.” Because at that point, I believe it was 2024, and I was really looking, it was towards the end of the school year, and I was really thinking, “Okay, we’re going to sign contracts soon for my teaching job, so I have to figure out what I’m going to do here.” So I updated my resume and I decided to email the owner of where I work now.

(08:55): And I said, “Hey, can we have a conversation about what it’s like to be a hearing aid specialist?” And he said, “Sure.” And he actually didn’t even realize until I sent him my resume that I was honestly looking for a job. I was looking for a way to transition from my teaching job to something else that I know I could be very good at, feel very rewarded, and also happy at. And it turned into an apprenticeship from there when he said, “Oh, you want to work here?” I said, “Yes. Yes. What is it like to be a hearing aid specialist?”

Betsy Civilette (09:27): So as Rick said earlier, most people have no idea that there’s apprenticeships for jobs like hearing aid specialists. So describe what your apprenticeship looks like.

Amanda Tibbets (09:40): So hearing aid specialist is a very. Actually, the apprenticeship came about because of STARS and because of the work that we put into the research of finding out what it takes to be a hearing aid specialist. So it was, from the beginning, kind of a very apprenticeable position simply because there’s all these requirements you have to show to whoever is licensing you. There’s a list of 17 things that I have to qualify for in order to even get my license. So in that way, it was very easy to turn it into an apprenticeship. And in fact, we are actually the first hearing aid specialist apprenticeship.

Rick Sizemore (10:17): Amanda, one thing that impressed us was that you were actually employed while you were completing your apprenticeship.

Amanda Tibbets (10:24): Yes.

Rick Sizemore (10:26): Tell us about that. How does that work?

Amanda Tibbets (10:28): Well, I actually kind of negotiated with my employer to have the job. And we went back and forth and I said, “Hey, if I’m going to make your apprentice, I am going to have to be paid because I do have to support my family too.” And he was agreeable to that. And I think a lot of people think that apprenticeships are kind of like an internship where you’re not being paid, but it’s not necessarily true. It’s like that in a lot of fields, but especially in this field as well. I work for them and I work, he’s my sponsor, and I work as an apprentice that is paid.

Betsy Civilette (11:09): That’s awesome. Well, now you had experienced some burnout in, I guess what, teaching or your other professions. How does this work compare to what you were doing before?

Amanda Tibbets (11:22): Well, I have always had an interest in psychology counseling, that kind of field. And it’s something that I also really enjoyed in teaching. And I kind of thought about psychology as a transition too. But there is a component to this job that does involve counseling, that does involve some psychology. And I always in teaching wanted to work one-on-one with my children more than I ever could. And even though the class sizes in kindergarten were relatively small, I didn’t feel like I could do enough of it. But in this job, I can give all my attention to my client and I know when they’re doing well because they’re hearing well. There’s a very specific marker for your accomplishment. And it’s the way that you feel when you see someone able to engage with their mother who might be 95 years old and there have been hearing issues for many years.

(12:22): And watching the interaction between a son or a daughter between a parent when they’re talking to them again and they can understand them, it’s huge. It’s very rewarding. It’s wonderful. And I know when my clients are doing well because they’re hearing well. It’s a really easy gauge. And for me, I guess I feel as though it’s quicker progress in hearing aid specialists versus in teaching. In teaching, you kind of see the progress at the end and it’s so rewarding when you see how much they’ve grown. But for people that are just a little bit different in what their motivation is and how quickly they need to see results, it works very well for me because I like to see results quickly. And in this job I can see that.

Rick Sizemore (13:12): Yeah. Amanda, you’re helping people hear better every day. There has to be something especially meaningful about helping people overcome a challenge you’ve personally experienced.

Amanda Tibbets (13:23): Indeed, there is. Having and wearing hearing aids is so, it’s integral into my job because I’m able to relate to my clients in a way that perhaps someone that does not wear hearing aids does. And just being able to say, yes, I have experienced this and this is what you should do. And being able to advise them when they might be having still some troubles after we get them fit with a hearing aid is huge. And I do have people come back to me and say, wow, that really worked. Thanks for suggesting that. But wearing hearing aids makes me actually a much better hearing aid specialist.

Betsy Civilette (13:59): That’s wonderful. Now, if someone was listening today and they were considering a career change, what would you tell them about apprenticeships?

Amanda Tibbets (14:07): I would absolutely encourage it. I think life is too short to be unhappy or questioning what you are doing in life, and there should not be roadblocks in the way of trying to change your career. So an apprenticeship is a wonderful way to transition into a career that you’re going to love, that you’re going to be able to do for a long amount of time. And I would highly encourage it and go after what it is you’re thinking you want to do. Research it, figure it out. Think about what you can potentially do instead of something maybe you’re unhappy with.

Rick Sizemore (14:44): Yeah. I love that phrase. Life is just too short to do things that you’re not happy doing. And that is certainly a great reflection on how you’ve applied that in your own life. Amanda’s success story didn’t happen by accident. Behind every successful apprenticeship are partnerships between employers, and in our case, vocational rehabilitation professionals and organizations willing to think more creatively. Joining us now is someone that our listeners have met before, Aileen Jackson-Diggs. Welcome back to the podcast, Aileen.

Aline Jackson-Diggs (15:21): Thank you. Glad to be here.

Betsy Civilette (15:24): Well, for listeners who may have not heard your previous appearance, tell us about your role with DARS and the Disability Innovation Fund Career Pathways Initiative.

Aline Jackson-Diggs (15:34): Okay. Well, I am currently working on the grant Pathways to Careers, and it has three categories that we’re focusing on to get individuals with disabilities and higher wage, high demand positions. So three categories, apprenticeship, state government, and STEM and healthcare. And of course, I am the registered apprenticeship liaison. So the initiative is where I am working closely with Virginia Works, the Registered Apprenticeship Division. We are partnering to create opportunities just as Amanda has had.

Rick Sizemore (16:12): Reflect with me, if you will, for just a moment on when you first met Amanda. You had to say something like, “Wow, here’s a great opportunity.” What was that first reaction meeting Amanda and seeing her interest in moving into the healthcare field as a hearing aid tech?

Aline Jackson-Diggs (16:33): Honestly, she had did the work before the work. So I came in, and I wish I could take credit that, “Oh, I set this up, I did this.” But honestly, from you hearing her story, she had already did her research. She came in ready to transition. And so I just helped facilitate the partnerships, the relationships. So bringing in Virginia Works so they could set up the apprenticeship. Just speaking with her, she’s a go-getter. She is the ideal candidate for apprenticeship. If I could have a thousand Amandas, I would take them instantly. Yeah, she’s amazing. And honestly, the partnership work. And we had another DARS staff that was a part of this that started the conversation. So I appreciate everybody’s ability to work within their roles, but then come together as a team.

Betsy Civilette (17:30): Right. But DARS did help to create this pathway for this apprenticeship.

Aline Jackson-Diggs (17:34): Absolutely.

Betsy Civilette (17:35): Absolutely. I

Aline Jackson-Diggs (17:35): Didn’t say that. I got to give her her kudos to what she did upfront, but then we were the connector and definitely we connected her with Virginia Works. One of the RACs actually started the process. It was a great opportunity because as Amanda said, this was one of the first hearing aid specialists in Virginia. And it actually was the first, so much so that we had to go through the Board of Hearing Specialists to set it up to make sure we were hitting all the points and the regulations. So yeah.

Betsy Civilette (18:09): Well, employers worry that apprenticeships are complicated. So what would you tell another Virginia employer considering this model?

Aline Jackson-Diggs (18:18): I would say this is your roadmap to setting the page for your training, making sure that it is consistent across the board. And in doing so, you have help. You have customer service that will help you lay out your apprenticeship program, and it can be completed within two to three days, ideally. So it’s very simple.

Betsy Civilette (18:42): Yeah.

Rick Sizemore (18:44): Wow. Now this story, it is just rich with the fact that Amanda had some tremendous transferable skills from education and being a food truck owner. I bet there’s a few lessons you learned doing that job. Customer

Betsy Civilette (18:59): Service,

Rick Sizemore (18:59): For sure.

Betsy Civilette (19:01): Absolutely.

Rick Sizemore (19:01): Yes. How important is it for counselors to recognize those transferable skills when they’re trying to set up an apprenticeship?

Aline Jackson-Diggs (19:09): It’s essential because honestly, we’re serving the participant first and foremost, but in our unique roles within DARS, we have business development managers, we have the registered apprenticeship liaison who I am in placement. And so we have a unique position where we’re serving the participant, but we’re also working with the business. And so we are wanting to bring people that are properly vetted to that business because we are building relationships and we want to make sure that they are getting the candidates that they need. So it is very important to properly vet for apprenticeship. And in doing so, we’ve created a quick two-hour session about apprenticeship. It’s like apprenticeship 101. We call it Apprenticeship Wednesdays. Amanda completed the classes and it just gave a quick overview of what apprenticeship was, the commitment levels, transferable skills needed to be successful, and then resources available to continue their research, just to make an informed decision.

Betsy Civilette (20:08): Well, as I said, the Pathways to Career Grant is funded through a Disability Innovation Fund, but how has that initiative expanded opportunities that didn’t exist just a few years ago?

Aline Jackson-Diggs (20:21): Oh, wow. Well, starting with Amanda, we have set up new positions in the state of Virginia. Now, some of these careers have already been registered on a federal level, but just not on the state of Virginia. So we have two more careers that were developed for the state of Virginia. We have brought in eight new companies to be registered as sponsors and just the opportunities. We have placed 50 or more apprentices and apprenticeships ranging from trades, the traditional service industry. You got your cosmetology, but then also to hearing aid technician, to IT, computer programming, just the plethora of opportunities being presented across the board and individualized and customized to the individual in the business. So that’s important to

Betsy Civilette (21:16): Say. That’s huge.

Rick Sizemore (21:18): Well, Betsy, we just heard a new one, Apprenticeship Wednesday. Betsy and I are all into Workforce Wednesday. And we’ll have to add to our list of fascinating topics for social media Apprenticeship Wednesday.

Betsy Civilette (21:33): Well, thank you, Amanda, for sharing your story. I can relate as I was diagnosed with hearing loss as a young adult, and I know that feeling of denial, and it really took me my job and the performance of my job that I realized, oh, I need that accommodation and get hearing aids. And it really, not only improved my life with the relationships, but also my job.

Rick Sizemore (21:56): Yeah. Working in an area where sound and hearing are so critical to the work we do, it’s been affirming to see you excel through the years as a person with hearing loss and your story. And Amanda, your story as well. What a powerful reflection on vocational rehabilitation and helping people with disabilities move into the workforce.

Betsy Civilette (22:20): Right. And it really improved my confidence at my job, I have to say. And that’s probably, I imagine, the same with you.

Amanda Tibbets (22:26): Absolutely. Absolutely. And what you’re saying about how you came to grips with it, everybody has a trigger moment when it comes to hearing loss. And in my job daily, I’m trying to figure out what that is. Why are you finally here? So you found yours and mine was the same reason.

Rick Sizemore (22:46): Well, thank you all for joining us for this powerful conversation. It’s been a pleasure.

Amanda Tibbets (22:53): Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Betsy Civilette (22:56): Well, stay with us. Coming up next, we’re joined by a nationally recognized speaker and author and youth advocate, Hassan Davis, a.k.a. The Hope Dealer.

Rick Sizemore (23:05): Hope Dealer.

Betsy Civilette (23:06): As we continue our conversation about helping people discover purpose, possibility, and pathways to meaningful employment. Today, we are honored to welcome Hassan Davis, a nationally recognized inspirational speaker, author, advocate, trainer, and what many people know him as the Hope Dealer.

Rick Sizemore (23:35): Hassan’s story is extraordinary growing up in poverty while navigating significant obstacles and challenges. He pushed forward through education, military service, and personal perseverance to become a nationally respected leader and voice for young people, families, and communities searching for hope and opportunity.

Betsy Civilette (23:55): And that leadership includes commissioner of the Kentucky Department of Juvenile Justice and sharing his message internationally at a disability conference at Lydon University Law School in the Netherlands and at the Caux Palace, if I said that right, in the mountains of Switzerland. I mean, how cool is that? Hassan has spent decades though helping people overcome barriers that too often convince them that their future has already been decided.

Rick Sizemore (24:23): Well, I’ll tell you what struck me most, and that was not just these accomplishments, but it’s Hassan’s authenticity. His ability to connect deeply with people who are struggling and help them believe that their story isn’t over yet.

Betsy Civilette (24:39): Well, Hassan, welcome to the VR Workforce Studio Podcast.

Hasan Davis (24:43): Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here. Good to see y’all.

Rick Sizemore (24:46):  Good to see you.

Betsy Civilette (24:48):  Well, for those hearing your message for the first time, so give us a quick overview of what you mean when you describe yourself as a hope dealer, and what does that look like in practice?

Hasan Davis (24:59): Okay. Excuse me. And so I always try to figure out how I can say this in a way that makes sense more than me. So the idea of a hope dealer really has emerged over my own life experience. And the big framing of it is those people who lean into the world of others with the intention of creating transformation. But the idea is that we have this intention, but then we have action behind it. Hope is a verb. Hope is a doing something word. And so as a hope dealer and invite folks to lean into the fact that they can be a part of somebody else’s success story and framing it out in those ideas of traditional hope as in the person where we build efficacy and encourage in our own humanity. And then that wider hope, I call the hope pillars, humanity, optimism, perspective, and empathy, hope, where we as folks who provide and lean into other people’s lives in our roles, hold up those aspects and use those as the lens that we look at their experience through.

(25:59): And then the big piece is how do we build these systems and environments that actually nurture hope? Social determinants of hope. I say these, what are the conditions we need to ensure are present so that when somebody finally does believe they can do different, see people around them helping them do different, can actually imagine a believable future where their life is different. And so those three together, I get excited and kind of lose my mind because it’s all that I’ve been processing here lately as I’ve kind of built this system. And it’s all based on my own experience navigating through all of those frameworks coming out of the system, navigating, helping and supporting people who are going through it as a young advocate and then running these systems. How do we build a system that actually does more whole than harm?

Rick Sizemore (26:48): Yeah. Well, Hassan, you have helped so many people in your sharing this message. You’ve been through a pretty profound journey. When I heard you, you talked about poverty, disability, trauma, adversity, and your life has been filled with the types of challenges that you now reach out to others with that hope and that help. And keeping that in mind, we talk to a lot of people in vocational rehabilitation who are on the journey of vocational rehabilitation. They’re wanting to go to work, they are navigating disability and some of the same kind of challenges that you talk about. What is your message to young people as they look at voc rehab, apprenticeship, and they’re trying to get into the workforce? And maybe share some of the moments that have helped shape your perspective and your message in this area.

Hasan Davis (27:48): Absolutely. I think that my big message is about persistence, and it’s a hard thing to really figure out what that means, but it’s about not stopping and not giving up. Part of what that requires is us being able to trust other people around us. We get great folk in voc rehab, great people in these spaces that are trying to support us. And sometimes they don’t understand how we show up in a way that is useful at first, but our ability to tell them what we want and what we need are important, and then being willing to negotiate. I tell the story of my experience with VR that was a negative experience, but taught me a lot was when I got into law school, which was a miracle in and of itself considering the journey. But then I finally, at that moment, realized that if I made it this far, just fighting the system and jury rigging it, creating things where I could and navigating, if I actually had an advocate, this could be a totally dangerous thing for the whole world.

(28:56): And so I finally went and enlisted a VR support and it didn’t work out well. That’s a short story. It didn’t work out well, and it turned into them trying to convince me that I was reaching too high and that I had fallen so many times and had so many scars that they didn’t want to be part of my trauma story. And they couldn’t imagine that the fact that I’d made it this far, that I was brave enough to walk through the door, that I wanted something different, was the spark that they could have really lit and used to build a big flame. And so at the end of the day, I walked out of there disappointed and ready to still fight. And so I stayed in law school. I got expelled from law school three times, but I never missed a day of class because I just told them I wasn’t leaving, which apparently people don’t usually do at law school.

(29:46): But part of my journey has been as a self-advocate and realizing nobody’s going to fight for me but me. I have other people that have leaned in, my mother, Dr. Lorraine Wilson, some great hope dealers for me, but I couldn’t have. Assume that anymore. And so I had to figure out as a person who wanted something different, how much I was willing to expend to get to it, and if I was willing to fail to try. And I think a lot of young people and folk who are navigating VR support to get into the workforce, it gets hard and we have to decide if it’s the thing we want to do and are we willing to fail to get to it? And knowing there’s a system around and people fail all the time. That’s what I didn’t understand first. I always remember from the Breakfast Club, I’m dating myself when they unscrewed them.

(30:39): They unscrewed the fixtures and the principal came in, and he was like, Jed Nelson, Jed Heard said, “Screws fall out all the time. The world is an Imperfect place.” You always think about that. It’s imperfect. And so lean into it. Go for the thing you want and be prepared to do the work for it and sometimes to alter what you want. And I always say it’s okay to have multiple things that you want to get to and a process to get to each one of those so that one falling isn’t a failure. It’s

Hasan Davis (31:14):  Just an opportunity for you to figure out where your strengths are. And for me, for many of us, figuring out what our strengths are and how we align that with the thing that we want is the hardest part. And sometimes you can’t. I knew I couldn’t be an astronaut even though I wanted that for a couple of days because I don’t do math, I don’t do science. Those processes for me don’t work. But I like exploration. And so I found other great ways to explore because I could understand what the thing that was driving that desire was. And so a lot of times it’s that internal piece, but the conversation with our VR folks and with our support teams on asking those questions, not just this is going to be hard, you can’t do it, but what about this is so enticing that you love it? And what other things can you do that can really get you that same space, same feeling, and then really feel like you’ve done good work?

Rick Sizemore (32:02): Oh, that’s so awesome. Because rehab counselors, they have that experience every day of trying to inspire. And it’s powerful words. Sorry to interrupt you, Betsy.

Betsy Civilette (32:14):  No, no. I read your story about getting into Berea College too, and talk about persistence. I love that story. Thank you. You talked to the director of admissions and you basically said that I’m going to be there next week. I love that. But one of the other things that makes your perspective so unique is that you have experienced systems from so many different angles. You’ve been the young person needing support, you’ve been the student, you’ve been the helper, and you’ve led these systems designed to help others. But through all of that, what comes through so clearly to me is your genuine concern for people. And as you’ve already kind of elaborated on, but what is the further message to counselors, therapists, educators and voc rehab professionals who are trying to be more effective?

Hasan Davis (33:10):  Yeah. So what I like to say is that we hold the line between harm and hope, and that is not a role that we should lean into with flippancy. This isn’t just a job and we hold people’s lives and hopes and possibilities. But the way we get there is through intention and through self-care. I always say you can’t give what you don’t have. So the idea of being a hope dealer is the idea of having hope. You can’t have people walk into your office every day with big dreams and in your back of your mind is like, yeah, that’s not going to work. I think that’s what happened with my counselor. I had these big dreams, and even though I was already in law school, already had, at least I survived the first test, their concern. And it came through so clearly when they said, “This is just going to be another failure and I can’t have that on my conscience.” And so when that shift came from it being about me to being about them, everything in my head changed.

(34:20):  And so if we’re showing up, we’re showing up for them. We don’t have to take it home. We’re creating opportunity. And if they have a spark for something, let’s light that and see how long it burns. But what we take away, and I get distracted, what we take away is the sense of I failed because they didn’t get to the thing they wanted because I let them dream out the box instead of they got to think about things and try some things, and now we can try some other things. In my professional work, we call it plan, do, study, act. Rapid cycle improvement. Fail forward faster. The quicker we can try some things and innovate, we can get to the idea of what didn’t work and we can try something else because that’s always going to be an opportunity. And so I implore our amazing teams that are doing this work to do that and to accept that sometimes we want to give up and sometimes we get frustrated and sometimes it is them and not us.

(35:15):  And we still have to show up because we’re wired for it, we’re trained for it, we’ve got all the right skills for it, and we know that they’re showing up different in the world. And so when they show up different, we shouldn’t be surprised, disappointed, or upset. We should be excited that we get a chance to use all of these amazing skills that we’ve gathered just for this moment. This was the moment we were designed for, we showed up for. So let’s own it and let’s create something amazing.

Rick Sizemore (35:41):  Yeah, what powerful words. You tell many stories about having pivotal moments in your life. Moments when someone said to you, “Hey, I’ve done all I can do for you. The rest is up to you. Tell us about one of those decision points in your own life, what it taught you. And again, how that could help not only clients in the system, but counselors who are working with people. These key moments when it’s time to go, it’s decision time.

Hasan Davis (36:12):  Well, so I think I’ve got one that I can process quickly and cleanly. So Betsy, you mentioned me talking my way into Berea College, literally talking my way into college. And so once I convinced them to let me in with no idea what that really meant, and we made the trek from Atlanta to Berea, Kentucky, got there, got there late because the car broke down. All the things that tell you this isn’t for you, but you just ignored and pushed through. They finally got me set up in the residence hall, but I was in the lounge with bunk beds because they had no more rooms left. All the people that were supposed to be there, I guess got rooms. But as my mother helped me move my stuff in and she turned and gave me the last $20 in their purse. She said, “Okay, baby, it’s time for you to decide who’s right about you and who’s wrong, but you have to choose now.” And that moment for me was so powerful because I realized that this really was about my power and my decision-making.

(37:14):  At this moment, I had these things aligned around me and I had to decide if I was the good guy in this story, I was the bad guy, but it was my story. And I had to be the one to write it. And so I eventually got into a room where the roommate started to get settled, but I’m still kind of navigating internally with all of this neurodiversity because I’m afraid to tell anybody I need help. So I tested in the zero level English and math. I’m struggling. I’m using my penmy shit pass from elementary school, the red line, blue line, red line. At night, my roommate falls asleep to practice my handwriting in secret. All the things that are telling me I’m not supposed to be here, but this voice is saying, “It’s time for you to decide. You decide.” And so I’m using all of my social skills that I’ve developed to survive, the survival skills in class to look like I belong, to look like I know everything, look like I’m the most confident guy.

(38:06):  I still have classmates now to tell me, “We though you were the most put together guy on campus.” And I was barely holding it together every hour, not every day, every hour. But I made it three semesters, got expelled. So all the drama happened, got expelled, went home, hit the trees with my brothers, joined the army, came back, talked away. So all of those things are going on. I finally get back in the second time and

(38:32):  Things are going well, but then one of my classes falls apart and I fell out of school again. And it’s this clear message from the professor in the class that I don’t belong here and there’s a confrontation. And I’m like, “Okay, fine. Stop pretending like this is your place and you can do anything you want to do because your mama says you can. All that hope stuff that’s been building is just done.” I walk out of his office with this clear new list, pack my things, go apologize to the dean that led me back in again.

(39:06):  Call my brothers, get ready to go home and get ready to hit the streets and just wild out until somebody finally takes me out. I walk across campus, open up my campus mailbox, and inside of it is a paper bag envelope with a bandana wrapped in plastic inside it. Bandanas were my tag on the street. I had bandanas, that was always how you knew I was coming, for good or for better or for worse. And it was a Japanese rising sun with characters on the side and marker on the plastic wrapping. It said, “Inevitable victory for Hassan with love mom.”

Rick Sizemore (39:43):  What a moment.

Hasan Davis (39:44):  It was a moment because this was the ’80s. She had to send this six or seven days ago. And I was still pretending life was good and I didn’t want her to worry anymore because she had sacrificed so much. And so for this message to get here when I’m just about to give up, and so I’m sitting on the wall outside the post office box, this rain is coming up. This is like one of those Charlie Brown moments. I just finished talking to the dean about getting expelled again. I’ve got these papers. I know it’s about to go bad. And I’ve got this letter from my mom

(40:17):  And all I can hear is this voice. You have to decide who’s right about you and who’s wrong, but you have to make a choice. And so I made a choice. My mama’s right. All these other people, I don’t know who they are. They don’t get a vote. And so that’s the moment I decided that I was going to try again. I was girded by the idea of choice, and choice became such a big piece. I have this program that I do for young people. Now I’m actually doing for staff too. The Five Choices, Outraging the Storm, The Five Choices for Success Beyond Challenges. So do something, stop playing small, change your friends or change your friends.

(41:01):  Forgive yourself, then forgive the world, and deserve victory. And each of those are the choices. And for me, that became for my mom, that was the message. These are the choices that you’re going to have to make over and over again to get to the life you want instead of falling to the life somebody else thinks you deserve. And so in that moment, that was really galvanizing about me and all the other stories and successes I had were because I kept making choices. It made no sense to anybody else or even with the data sometimes, but it was the choice that was informed by the idea that I got to decide when I was done and I wasn’t done yet.

Betsy Civilette (41:37):  Right. Well, I need a copy of those choices for my 26-year-old son who’s struggling, so please share.

Hasan Davis (41:44):  I’m happy to.

Betsy Civilette (41:45):  But you’ve written several books, including The Race, which illustrates this power of hope dealers that we’re talking about. Can you tell us about writing that story and what kind of impact it has had on others? . And I want to jump in here. If you’re in the helping profession, get this book and keep it handy because it’s powerful. Find it online.

Rick  (42:08): It’s online.

Hasan Davis (42:09):  Thank you. Thank you. So The Race, it started as a poem, as a tribute to my mom. Writing, creative writing was one of my survival tools that she gave me early on as a young person. I remember packing my bags and my anger and then heading out the door to the streets to wreak havoc. And at some point, my mother started interrupting me with these moments where she would give me a pad of paper and a pen. I’m like, “What am I doing?” She says, “Write.” I’m like, “Write what?” I had that team. And she said, “Whatever. Write whatever comes to mind.” And so this writing process, this clearing process became a thing that I would do. And sometimes you couldn’t even read it because when I’m frustrated and tired, I still write like I’m doing hieroglyphics in a cave. And I lose all of that thing, that training I did with the penmanship pad all those years.

(43:08): But I would write and sometimes carve through the six sheets of paper, you couldn’t even read it. But there was this catharsis that came with it because I was taking all of this internal struggle and putting it out into the world. And so over the years, and she and my stepfather, my father were writers and poets and the front edge of the spoken word revolution of really activist poets. And so I started figuring out that I could tell my story like this. And so that became the tool that I used to order the world when I was navigating real chaos to try and get an understanding externally before I lost it internally. And so I wrote this just trying to finally say, “What do I want to say about this amazing gift that she and other hope dealers gave me of believing possibility?” And so I started this Dr.

(44:00): Seussical kind of rhyme of a poem and it just started to live.

(44:06): Telling the story of a kid who’s locked in a classroom where they don’t let you touch the books and you get to have glue and round scissors and make crowns out of popsicle sticks because that’s the exciting thing for you. But finding a note in his pocket from his mom saying, “You don’t give up. The inevitable victory can still be yours, but you got to keep looking for the exit. You can’t just look down.” And then he looks around and sees an open window and is like, “Oh, there’s people outside doing stuff.” And so it sparks this adventure where he escapes the classroom, goes out to this track event. Has never been to one of those because he’s not one of those kids, but he insinuates himself, kind of like talking way into school, insinuates himself. And they’re like, “This isn’t for you.” But people say, “Give him a chance.

(44:52): Well, it’s going to hurt.” And he does his best, but he doesn’t do anything near what’s appropriate. But he gets dragged back to his special room. This is where he’s supposed to be. Be happy with the putting the pegs in the holes. But then he knows now that there’s something else out there. And so he takes those popsicle sticks and instead of making another crown, he builds up a replica of the classroom and puts an X where the window is. So anybody else that’s finally got an idea they deserve something different still knows where the exit is. And then since they’re all busy doing what they do with kids that they’re not going to worry about, he figures out where the keys are and he makes his way and he leaves a note saying, “I’m going to find my next race.” And so it really is just this retelling of the story of the people who were around me, who supported me, who believed in me enough to allow me to believe in myself.

(45:42):  And they couldn’t run the race for me. They couldn’t jump high for me, but they could continue to fight and say, “Create a space and maybe something amazing will happen.” And sometimes that’s enough to start an amazing race.

Rick Sizemore (45:54):  That is so awesome. We’re running out of time, Hassan. We’ll put links to all of your information in our show notes at vrworkforcestudio.com. Betsy.

Betsy Civilette (46:05):  Thank you so much for joining us today. Your story – Absolutely. Honesty, your message are so deeply important for everyone to hear. I know I got a lot out of it just for my personal life and situations. Thank you. And especially our listeners are people every day working to help people discover pathways towards independence, employment, and a purpose in life.

Hasan Davis (46:30):  Well, I’m so grateful to be here.

Rick Sizemore (46:32):  Yeah. Before we close, we want to thank you not only for sharing your story, but spending your life the way you do helping people with challenging circumstances and finding their destiny. Don’t forget to check out our YouTube channel at VRWorkforceStudio. We’re going to be featuring a music video around Hassan’s life, entitled Anthem.

Hasan Davis (46:57):  Pretty excited about that.

Rick Sizemore (46:58):  Anthem of Hope Dealer. And I’m sure you’ll probably share that on your social media too.

Hasan Davis (47:03): Absolutely.

Rick Sizemore (47:03):  We’ll put a link to that in our show notes. So getting excited about that.

Hasan Davis (47:07): Yeah, I can’t wait.

Rick Sizemore (47:09):  Yeah. Until next time, I’m Rick Sizemore.

Betsy Civilette (47:11): And I’m Betsy Civilette.

VR Workforce Studio Singers (47:13):  It’s the Clearinghouse Update with Heather Service.

Rick Sizemore (47:21):  Well, it’s time for our National Clearinghouse Report with the always entertaining and informative Heather Service. Welcome to the podcast, Heather.

Heather Servais (47:29):  Hey, Rick, great to be here with you.

Rick Sizemore (47:31):  Exciting story today, pre-apprenticeship, and of course Hasan Davis sharing some of those inspiring comments as only he can. And we’re excited to know more from the Clearinghouse about apprenticeships. What do you have for us today?

Heather Servais (47:48):  Absolutely. I loved hearing about the pre-apprenticeship and apprenticeship model. So every resource that I have for you today is focused on apprenticeships. So the first one I have is the Apprenticeship Accommodations Toolkit, which was created by the Office of Disability Employment Policy, lovingly known as ODEP. And this toolkit helps organizations turn these apprenticeship programs into accessible pathways for individuals with disabilities while also helping the employers help build and retain a strong workforce. And so one of the things about this particular resource that I really like is that rather just focusing on the compliance piece, this toolkit really focuses on real world accommodation solutions and strategies, which really helps foster that shared success for all involved, the employer, the apprentice, and the workforce partner. And this tool can be used by such a wide variety of folks. So folks who are turning in for VR counselors, educators, workforce professionals.

(48:51):  This toolkit really gives those concrete tools and examples that are going to help remove uncertainty around the job accommodations and support some successful training and employment experiences. And the job seekers and apprentices can also use this resource. It’s a great way for those folks to be able to help better understand the accommodation options and the workplace supports and strategies that will really help their successful participation in the apprenticeship and work-based learning opportunities.

Rick Sizemore (49:20):  Yeah. My dad is 86 years old and is probably one of the wisest people I’ve ever met. And then when he’s involved in some kind of a deal, he was a businessman, an upholster, and an old car rebuilder. He always talked about it’s only a good deal if everyone benefits, and it certainly seems that way. When you have the apprenticeship conversation, everybody’s got a piece of this pie and everybody comes out better off. So it’s exciting to hear about that tool. What else do you have for us?

Heather Servais (49:49):  Absolutely. I have a step-by-step apprenticeship implementation guide, which was created by VR-TA/QE. And the guide provides tools and examples on the implementation strategies to help the organizations develop and expand and sustain apprenticeship and work-based learning opportunities for individuals with disabilities. So again, this is a resource that really helps build those apprenticeship programs by breaking down the complex processes into more manageable and real world steps that organizations can apply in practice. And so for VR folks who are tuning in, you can use this resource to better understand apprenticeship models, to help build employer and workforce partnerships, and to help support your participants in navigating the apprenticeship opportunities and to identify some of those strategies that can really help support those successful employment outcomes. And then the last resource I have for you, I got to always plug an NCRTM resource here. Do it.

Rick Sizemore (50:47): We love the NCRTM.

Heather Servais (50:49):  And what I like about this is it’s one of our curated lists. So it’s resources from the NCRTM on apprenticeship specifically for individuals with disabilities. And this curated list is a centralized collection of more than 20 resources that are focused on apprenticeship and work-based learning and employment opportunities for individuals with disabilities. And so this whole collection includes implementation guides, accommodation tools. It even includes things like research, partnership resources, and some promising practices that are being used out in the field right now. So we encourage a variety of folks to tune in and check this out. It’s got, like I said, 20 resources. And if you’re not familiar with the NCRTM curated list, I know we share these pretty frequently when they’re related to topics on the podcast, but we have over 25 of these curated lists on a wide variety of topics, and they’re a great starting point for getting folks to explore resources, identify some tools.

(51:47):  And so in the link in the show notes, we will share the link that goes to all 25 of those lists in addition to the apprenticeship list as well.

Rick Sizemore (51:55):  Let me tell you what I love about the curated list, and that is I talk with many, many, many VR counselors and their world is defined by talking to families. Family members who are searching for information. There’s just simply nothing better than having a set of curated list as VR counselor. No matter who comes in and what they’re looking for, that list can just be an absolute pathway forward to understanding disability, the workforce, the various strategies. It’s just an amazing resource for VR counselors. That’s why I say to all of our podcast listeners, take and save The Clearinghouse in your favorites. Go straight in there, find those curated lists, and you always have something to give as a parting gift after you’ve met with the family. So way to go to you and the NCRTM team. And while we’re on the NCRTM, the new LinkedIn page is absolutely fabulous.

(52:58):  If you’re on LinkedIn, make sure you go out to the NCRTM and follow their stream of resources and information. So good job to you and all the team that’s giving us in the VR community all the resources, the latest news and updates. It’s a pleasure to have you on the show today.

Heather Servais (53:16):  Thank you so much. Take care.

* The National Clearinghouse of Rehabilitation Training Materials (NCRTM) is maintained by New Editions Consulting, Inc. and sponsored by the U.S. Department of Education, Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA).  The contents of this document were developed under contract 91990023D0037-91990024F0377 from the U.S. Department of Education (Department). The Department does not mandate or prescribe practices, models, or other activities described or discussed in this document. The contents of this document may contain examples of, adaptations of, and links to resources created and maintained by another public or private organization. The Department does not control or guarantee the accuracy, relevance, timeliness, or completeness of this outside information. The content of this document does not necessarily represent the policy of the Department. This document is not intended to represent the views or policy of or be an endorsement of any views expressed or materials provided by any Federal agency. (EDGAR 75.620)