How Wilson Workforce partners with Special Education to help students with disabilities  along with updates from the National Rehabilitation Association

Jared Lem with his display

Rick Sizemore Twitter @Rickwwrc or email,

Anne Hudlow’s email is

Wilson Workforce and Rehabilitation Center Twitter @wwrc.

Council of State Administrators for Vocational Rehabilitation (CSAVR) Twitter@csavr

National Rehabilitation Association (NRA)

Doug Cox, Virginia Department of Education

David DeNotaris  e-mail   Visit David’s Website

Cherie Takemoto, PhD Project Director/Senior Research Analyst  on Twitter @RSA_NCRTM Phone:703-356-8035 ext. 107   National Clearinghouse for Rehabilitation Training Materials.

The National Technical Assistance Center on Transition (NTACT) has introduced an array of up-to-date resources for the NCRTM library:

Summary of National Reports on Secondary Transition and Students with ASD – This brief synopsis of recent national reports on autism is a quick way to learn about the current state of ASD.

Identifying Students with Autism Spectrum Disorders in Secondary Research – A summary of the issues around the definition of autism spectrum disorders and the challenges when trying to identify what works with students with ASD. This also contains the DSM-5 criteria for levels of support for ASD and references the Supports Intensity Scale (SIS) assessment as another way practitioners can gauge needs for support .

Predictors and Students with ASD–  NTACT convened a technical working group and identified 20 predictors of predictors of post-school success for students with ASD.

Ask the Expert: Employment Strategies and Supports for Youth with ASD  – In this archived webinar, Jennifer McDonough, Project Director & Associate Director of Training, and Alissa Molinelli, Project Coordinator, from the Virginia Commonwealth University Rehabilitation Research and Training Center


Intro: (singing) VR Workforce Studio

Speaker 1: VR Workforce Studio.

Speaker 1: Inspiration, education, and affirmation, at work.

Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode as we open up the VR Workforce Studio to champion the courageous stories of vocational rehabilitation, from individuals with disabilities.

Speaker 2: Listen to our amazing stories.

Speaker 3: Hear the joy and share in our inspiration.

Speaker 1: You’ll also meet the champions of business and industry.

Speaker 4: I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that some of our best employees have disabilities.

Speaker 1: And hear from the VR professionals who have dedicated their lives and careers to helping individuals with disabilities go to work. Now heres the host of the VR Workforce Studio, Rick Sizemore, along with Executive Director of the Wilson Workforce and Rehabilitation Center Foundation, Anne Hudlow.

Anne Hudlow: Welcome to episode 65 of the VR workforce studio, as we celebrate National Autism Awareness month, and World Autism Awareness day on April 2nd.

Rick Sizemore: Excited about today’s show Anne. We’re headed out to the US geological survey, you’ll hear us refer to that as the USGS, for an interview with Jared Lem. Jared is one of their IT professionals and what a story he has to tell about VR, autism, and how he landed that job out at USGS. You’ll hear from staff who work with him as well, about what it’s like working with Jared.

Anne Hudlow: Today’s show coincides with the National Rehabilitation Association’s 38th annual disability employment summit. And we’ll talk with Dr. Fred Schroeder about this year’s summit.

Rick Sizemore: Yeah, we’re so thrilled to be involved with the National Rehabilitation Association’s social media effort. Now find the link to our podcast on their site at

Anne Hudlow: That’s right, and Rick you’re part of the summit this year.

Rick Sizemore: Yeah, very fortunate Anne to be included in a session this year in helping students with disabilities gain competitive integrated employment. We’re asked to share some of the success stories from Wilson, and the workforce innovation and opportunities act. Carol Dobak, acting deputy commissioner out at the Rehabilitation Services Administration and Lauri VanderPloeg, Director of the office of special education programs, they were kind enough to let us talk about Wilson, about vocational rehabilitation and the relationship we have with special education, here in Virginia, and how that collaborative model engages business to create the programs that are helping individuals with disabilities get great jobs.

Anne Hudlow: And we have something new to the show today. David DeNotaris joins us for a segment we call; Disability at work. He shares his perspectives on disability on the job. And Cherie Takemoto is standing by with our national clearing house update. All on today’s show.

Rick Sizemore: So, have you ever heard the Bill Gates speech on 14 things your kids do not and will not learn in school?

Anne Hudlow: Absolutely, love that speech, and I use it all the time.

Rick Sizemore: I think you have a favorite too, don’t you?

Anne Hudlow: I do. I do. Yes, yes, I do. Rule number 11: Be nice to nerds.

Rick Sizemore: Absolutely!

Anne Hudlow: Chances are you’ll end up working with one.

Rick Sizemore: No, no, chances are you’ll wind up working FOR one.

Anne Hudlow: For. Yes, that’s true. Absolutely. Right, right.

Anne Hudlow: And I’m reminded of this every time my computer locks up and I realize just how smart those IT folks are when they come in to help me to fix and undo any damage that I’ve created when I try to reboot, or fix, or reload my computer.

Rick Sizemore: Well, I’ll bet the same is true for all the staff who work out at the US Geological Survey in Reston, Virginia, where our guest on today’s podcast works as a highly skilled and credentialed IT professional. He’s actually a tier 2 help desk technician at USGS, and is a person with autism. And I can think of no better way than contacting him, actually through the help desk.

Jared Lem: Morning US Geological Survey Tier 2 Tech Support, Jared speaking, may I help you?

Rick Sizemore: You certainly can! Welcome to the podcast Jared! How are you this morning?

Jared Lem: Good, how are you?

Rick Sizemore: Oh we’re doing well, how are things going out at USGS this morning?

Jared Lem: Pretty well.

Anne Hudlow: So Jared, we are celebrating National Autism Awareness Month, and could not be more excited to talk with you about your VR journey, and your job. Can you tell us what you do there and just give us that laundry list of things that you do on your typical day, as a tier 2 help desk tech at USGS?

Jared Lem: I am a tier 2 help desks specialist at US Geological Survey. Tier 2 things include but are not limited to emitting computers for employees, scan IT forms, going on customer calls, etc. And then my typical day begins with me going to work via public transit through Fairfax connector. I log into my computer. Do roll call and scan IT forms. I also image computers on occasion.

Rick Sizemore: That sounds like a great exciting day. How did you wind up working at USGS?

Jared Lem: I was a volunteer for the Chantilly Step Program at US Geological Survey about two and a half years ago. After looking on USA Jobs for an opening with US Geological Survey, the month before my graduation, before I made my departure from Wilson Workforce Rehabilitation Center, I applied for a job at USGS via Us Jobs, I earned my A+ credential, and had my interview here with my supervisor Terry Wash.

Rick Sizemore: You talked about training at Wilson. Tell us about the training program. What was that like, learning to work on computers and getting your credential?

Jared Lem: Well, for me, it was like a college course for people with disabilities. For computer repair, we got into the book like, April of two years ago, and got fully rote April of two years ago, answered the phone for the computer repair class at Wilson Workforce and Rehabilitation center on occasion when people were calling.

Rick Sizemore: So your course work actually had some academic training but you did hands on in the computer repair program?

Jared Lem: Yes.

Rick Sizemore: Tell us what it was like working on the actually computers in the lab.

Jared Lem: It gave me some experience to continue with in my computer repair class, like for example, I fixed my own computer, plus my Ipod, to get the hard drive replaced, a tune up, and my Ipods battery replaced. I think it might need a screen replacement. And also fixed other peoples computers ranging from students on campus, local residents in the area, like, I even helped Katrina Moore, who brought in her laptop two years ago, to be- to get her password removed.And I noticed that her AVG subscription was expired. I alerted her and really got the malware off her computer, which brought back the same customer again.

Rick Sizemore: You saved the day.

Anne Hudlow: Absolutely.

Jared Lem: Thank you. And she came back the next day.

Anne Hudlow: Oh I’m sure!

Rick Sizemore: That’s fantastic.

Anne Hudlow: Okay, Jared, April is National Autism Month. Can you tell us about your experience with autism?

Jared Lem: Experience. I mean I spend so much time in speech pathology, counseling, and a psychiatrist’s office. I was also in special ed classes. I’ve been fully immersed.

Rick Sizemore: So you had to learn to work with other people and work on your social relationships as part of your voc-rehab experience.

Jared Lem: Yes.

Rick Sizemore: What kind of counseling did you go through to improve your social skills?

Jared Lem: I was worked with social interesting group, and communication skills, and through speech pathology. Communication skills group with varied speech pathologist.

Rick Sizemore: So did that help in terms of the job that you’re doing today? Working on those communication skills?

Jared Lem: It did, but I feel like I was also referred to stress management, to control anger and behaviors.

Rick Sizemore: Jared, when you were training here at Wilson, you obtained a workforce credential. What is the credential you received and tell us what you had to go through to obtain it?

Jared Lem: I got my A+ credential by reading Mike Meyer’s Maintaining and repairing guide to maintain and repair PCs. Not to be confused with the Canadian actor.

Rick Sizemore: Well, that A+ certification, that is a very well respected industry workforce credential. How does it feel to hold that credential?

Jared Lem: It feels pretty good. That, and it gives me a door open for more certifications like, I’m going to be taking my security+ this summer or fall.

Rick Sizemore: Oh wow, that’s exciting.

Anne Hudlow: Jared, can you tell us the things that you like most about working at USGS?

Jared Lem: I like emitting computers and scanning IT forms. I also enjoy that it’s accessible by public transit, via Fairfax Connector. That way I can save my mother the headache of hauling me to and from work.

Rick Sizemore: So it’s a great place to work.

Jared Lem: Yes.

Rick Sizemore: Let me ask you this, if you had any advice for someone with autism, who was thinking about vocational rehabilitation, or going to work in IT; What would your advice be?

Jared Lem: Listen to instructions given from your evaluators and instructors. Also, don’t get into other people’s affairs.

Rick Sizemore: You have someone there that we are going to be able to get a comment from? You got a coworker?

Jared Lem: One second. May I put you on hold for one brief second?

Rick Sizemore: And we have one of Jared’s coworkers, Will, on the line. Hey Will?

Will: Yes sir.

Rick Sizemore: What’s it like working with Jared?

Will: Oh, Jared’s great. He’ll help you out whenever he has a chance and he’s very detail oriented of course, and he’s- No matter what you need done if you just give it to him he can get it done no matter what it might be.

Rick Sizemore: How does he fit in with the office social environment?

Will: Oh, he’s does well. He interacts with everybody very well.

Rick Sizemore: Just as a coworker, what is it like working with someone with autism, and particularly in the IT arena?

Will: The good thing about IT arena, it’s a very detail oriented type of job. So, like I said with Jared, he’s very attentive to details and things like that. So, as long as he’s got the instructions he seems like he’s ready to go.

Rick Sizemore: Thank you Will.

Will: Alright, thank you and have a good day sir.

Rick Sizemore: How does it make you feel having gotten a job, full-time, with benefits?

Jared Lem: I feel like I support myself, without becoming overly dependent on social security. Right.

Rick Sizemore: Well listen Jared, you have a wonderful day, and thank you so much for helping us with the podcast.

Anne Hudlow: Thank you so much.

Jared Lem: You’re welcome, Miss Hudlow.

Rick Sizemore: We continue our conversation on Autism and VR’s collaboration with the Department of Education momentarily but now David DeNotaris is a sought after motivational speaker, published author, trainer, and consultant. He’s held leadership roles in vocational rehabilitation agencies in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, and he also happens to be blind. With this month’s installment of Disability at work, here is David Dino Terrace.

David: What a pleasure it is for me to be with you again. Rick, thank you so much. I truly believe that access equals success. And when we can help people access the same information as their classmates, neighbors, colleagues, or peers, they can get the same education, they can get the same training, and of course, they can get the same jobs. A recent Stanford university study said, 66% of people were dissatisfied with their jobs, and as many as 15% just hated their jobs. Today I want to encourage you to do what you love, and love what you do. To focus on your ability. Don’t just go through something, but grow through something.

David: I truly believe that my disability has made me stronger, more creative, and helped me become a better problem solver. I truly believe that individuals with disabilities are the most untapped talent pool for employers to consider, and once individuals recognize, understand, and believe that, then individuals with disabilities will take their place in the work place as the individuals who are problem solvers, possibility thinkers, and effort makers. Until next time, my name is David DeNotaris. It’s been a pleasure to be with you.

Rick Sizemore: All of the contact information for David DeNotaris is in our show notes at

Rick Sizemore: Anne caught up with Doug Cox earlier this week.  Doug is the interim assistant superintendent from Virginia’s Department of Special Education and Student Services and has been involved in a collaborative relationship with Wilson Workforce for decades, as VR and Special Education Services partner in Virginia to ensure students with disabilities get what they need in order to be successfully employed.   Doug had this to say about this to say about the Wilson DOE partnership.

Doug Cox: We have a proud history of collaboration with state operated programs and especially with Wilson workforce. And I think it’s absolutely essential, because if in the end results our kids don’t have good post school outcomes, relating either to employment or post-secondary education, then we really haven’t done the job that we had set out to do.

Rick Sizemore: What a  wonderful comment to continue this conversation as  we welcome James Hall now, who oversees vocational training at Wilson. He is with us to talk about how this collaborative model actually works in the classroom, to support students with disabilities in reaching competitive, integrated, employment.

Rick Sizemore: Welcome James

James Hall:  It’s a pleasure to be here.

Rick Sizemore: So James, tell us how the model works here at Wilson.

James Hall: Well the model for special education and vocational rehabilitation here at Wilson works on best practices. And these best practices that we use are research based and we use co-teaching, differentiated instruction, universal design, and a lattice method of career and technical education instruction.

Rick Sizemore: Let’s drill down. Work us through each of those.

James Hall: Great, more than happy to. With co-teaching, this is the essence of special education, because you’re weaving the knowledge and skills of the masters of content, who are our general education teachers, and you mesh those with our masters of access, who’re the special education teachers, language development specialists, related service personnel, and other specialists. So it’s definitely a team approach.

Rick Sizemore: Yeah, one of my favorite examples of that is, in the manufacturing technology training program, you have a former engineer from Hershey, who’s that content expert, but you pair him up with a special educator in the classroom so the student has the best of both worlds.

James Hall: Correct, and that is the perfect balance. And there’s a couple of co-teaching models that we use. We use supportive, where one teacher takes the lead, and the others rotated among the students to provide support. We use parallel, and that’s where the co-teachers work with different groups of student in different areas of the classrooms. And we also use the team teaching approach, where the co-teachers jointly plan, deliver together, and share responsibilities and leaderships for the classroom.

Rick Sizemore: Okay, lets continue.

James Hall: With differentiated instruction, this is where we’re meeting the students where they are. We’re providing multiple pathways for students to access and interact with content, and to show what they know.

Rick Sizemore: Yeah. Awesome.

James Hall: With the universal design, this is where we’re looking for the equal access to the curriculum by having all the students access this curriculum by reducing the physical, the cognitive, intellectual, social, and organizational barriers to learning. And lastly we use the lattice method of career and technical education instruction, where we have a balance of classroom and laboratory work. If the lattice was just classroom it’d fall over. If it was just laboratory it’d fall over. So you have to have a balance.

Rick Sizemore: A combination of academic and engaging classroom hands-on activities.

James Hall: That is correct.

Rick Sizemore: You know we just heard Jared Lem a few minutes ago, and he talked about that experience of getting the instruction from the classroom and going into the computer lab.

James Hall: Yes, and that’s the perfect example. You could go into the textbook, or you could go to online program and learn about chapter 2 in the book of replacing hard drives.

Rick Sizemore: Right.

James Hall: But then you actually get to go into the laboratory and do it. Take it out, take the hard drive out, and put it in.

Rick Sizemore: That it so awesome. So how are you evolving an educational partnership that not only addressed educational principles in the classroom, but considers the workforce innovation and opportunities act requirements for skill gains, and almost as important, if not more important, the WIOA recognized workforce credentials.

James Hall: Well, we’ve entered the age of accountability. But that’s something that education has always been a part of. We hold ourselves accountable, which allows students success. So the way we integrate the skill gains and credentials, would be we use multiple career pathways that allow on and off ramps, so our students can be part of differentiated instruction. We use formative assessment, progress monitoring, to continually adjust our instruction to meet the needs of the students. If we do that, the skill gains will naturally come. We also have a goal of every student being eligible to obtain an industry recognized credential, and the credential, that curriculum serves as the backbone of the curriculum. So the credential is woven, spiraled, through-out, however we can add enhancements to that. Similar to how the SOLs are taught in the public schools.

Rick Sizemore: So, give us some examples of some of the workforce credentials that students are pursuing here at Wilson.

James Hall: They’re able to get an A+ certification in our computer support, security+, they’re also able to get in culinary and food service, serve safe food handler. They’re able to get a logistics, and this is certified logistics associate in materials handling. In auto mechanics we’re looking at ASE student maintenance lite repair. And so we have a variety of credentials.

Rick Sizemore: All industry driven and recognized by industry as needed to be successful in these various occupations.

James Hall: Correct, and we also access the Virginia Department of Education, their list of credentials that are required for their diploma options, in addition to Virginia Community College system, and their credentials for the Fast Forward Program.

Rick Sizemore: What associations have you engaged to ensure the Wilson curriculum is in sync with the needs of business.

James Hall: We’ve engaged a plethora of organizations and other bodies. For instance, we’ve reached out to the manufacturing skills institute, which is part of the Virginia manufacturing association, and that’s been a very strong partnership. In fact, we were the 2016 partner of the year.

Rick Sizemore: That’s awesome.

James Hall: Great award, we appreciate each year we’re able to go down to Williamsburg, and we enjoy that collaboration. We’ve also reached out to CSAVR, and their resources from their business development team.

Rick Sizemore: Let me just put in a plug that CSAVR’s vision 20/20, of the dual customer. Mission driven and dual customer focuses shaped Wilson’s overall approach to, not only focus on those that we’re helping gain skills, but to respond to the needs of business by filling those talent pipelines with qualified exiting graduates who want to go to work in business.

James Hall: Correct. And I think that’s the perfect balance.

James Hall: What we have is also the career and technical education resource center, the Virginia association of technology and industrial educators, our advisory boards for each of our programs, the Shenandoah Valley workforce development board, the Virginia department of education TTAC, that’s technical and training centers. Other technical centers such as our neighboring valley career and technical center, Massanutten technical center, Microsoft, CVS, we’ve reached out and worked with a lot of people to make sure our curriculum is strong.

Rick Sizemore: Yeah, it’s exciting and that’s the whole focus of today’s podcast is how VR is partnered with business and the education community and special ed, to deliver these programs here in the VR training center at Wilson, so students will ultimately be successful. What about apprenticeships?

James Hall: Apprenticeships are amazing. They’re extremely important because they say to an employer that we’re producing graduates that have the knowledge and skills to succeed in their particular industry. Getting into employment earlier means that there’s a lot of potential for a student to progress in their career quickly, which is our ultimate goal. Personal independence through employment. We’re also a federal department of labor pre-apprenticeship approved program for manufacturing technology and training program. In addition, we utilize the Shenandoah Valley workforce development valley 2 Virginia apprenticeship grant. And we have a former student, Chris Hall, who enrolled into an apprenticeship program at the Hershey company.

Rick Sizemore: Yeah, along with several others, and we anticipate that pipeline just continuing to produce apprentices at Hershey, and many other manufacturing facilities in Virginia. Do you have a favorite success story?

James Hall: Yes, we have a couple. We have Jared Lem.

Rick Sizemore: Jared? We heard Jared this morning!

James Hall: Who makes an impression on everyone he meets. He obtained his gold level career readiness certificate, in addition to his comp TIA A+ certification from our computer support program.

Rick Sizemore: Well congratulations to you and the team, and the way you’re able to bring so many services to bear in one setting, that help students with these challenges, really plan a career path into and industry that’s going to result in their welfare, family sustaining wage, and a rewarding career.

Rick Sizemore: James Hall is the Director of Career and Workforce development at Wilson Workforce and rehabilitation center.  Thank you both for being on the podcast today.

Rick Sizemore: We just celebrated National Rehabilitation Counselor Appreciation day, and are so fortunate to have our good friend Dr. Fred Schroeder, of the National Rehabilitation Association on the phone. Welcome Dr. Schroeder.

Fred Schroeder: Thank you, I’m delighted to be here.

Rick Sizemore: I know you’re getting excited about the summit this year, tell us about some of the key themes that are going on.

Fred Schroeder: Well, I think people look at a policy summit and think, “Oh my gosh, that must be deadly boring.” And of course we are getting into some of the technical issues, but really, all of what we’re doing is about the integration of people with disabilities into society, their ability to work, and to be an active part of their community. So, we’re looking at the Disability Integration Act that provides for home and community based services, we’re looking at work incentives, all the things that support the dignity and full inclusion of people with disabilities.

Rick Sizemore: Certainly there’s new energy around National Rehabilitation Association’s social media outreach. We certainly celebrate all the work that’s going on to share the messages from NRA and the conference.

Fred Schroeder: I appreciated that. We have a great group of volunteers who’re handling our social media, because we have a great story and the people with whom we work have a great story. We need to tell the story the people with disabilities have the ability to work and contribute to their communities. It’s an exciting story and we’re glad to share it.

Rick Sizemore: Dr. Fred Schroeder, National Rehabilitation Association, thank you for being on the podcast today.

Fred Schroeder: My pleasure, thank you.

Anne Hudlow: The National Rehabilitation Association is certainly doing a lot of great work on social media, and you can find them on Twitter, Facebook, Linkedin, Snapchat, and Instagram, with all the latest.

Rick Sizemore: It’s time for our National Clearing House update with Cherie Takemoto. Welcome Cherie.

Cherie Takemoto: Hi, and happy spring.

Rick Sizemore: And happy spring to you. You know we just heard a great interview with Jared Lem about his job out at the US Geological Survey, and his experience with VR and autism. What do you have in the clearing house this month with autism information?

Cherie Takemoto: Wow, your timing is impeccable as always. This month in our newsletter, we feature some autism resources from the National Technical Assistance Center on transition. And I’ll share all these links in the show notes. First, locally, we’re working on ways we have to change our system to accommodate the people with autism. So the first place you go is like, what do we know? Well, the National Technical Assistance Center compiled all these national studies that have been conducted recently, and I found out things like, autism has a prevalence of 1 in 59 according to the CDC.

Rick Sizemore: That’s amazing.

Cherie Takemoto: And, another report said that only 14% of adults with autism are competitively employed. So unless we do something differently, we’re not going to have great results for the growing populations in autism. That’s in the summer reports on secondary transition for students with ASD, or Autism Spectrum Disorder. And the second on is identifying students with autism disorders in secondary research. Now, this sounds a little wonky for VR folks, but what I’d like about this is that they talk about differentiating- You know, don’t put everybody with autism in the same box and provide the same services, take a look at their level of needs for support and their characteristics. So they talk about using DSM-5, or the- something called the SIS to differentiate the level of services that people with autism need. Not only for research, but in practice.

Cherie Takemoto: So once you have all this wonky stuff, what works for students with autism? NTACT, can mean National Technical Work Group, and they identified 20 predictors for students with autism, positive predictors for success, in the areas of education, employment, and independent living. So for those folks who want to see what works with autism, go take a look at those predictors.

Rick Sizemore: We’ll certainly include those in the show notes as well, I’m excited to get that information.

Cherie Takemoto: Okay, so just one more thing. If you just have a little bit time to figure out, so what do I do with some of these folks with autism and how do I make sure that what I’m doing is successful? Just go to this webinar called Ask the Expert: Employment Strategies and Supports with Autism Disorder, and Alissa Brooke and Jennifer McDonough from our very own VCU, provide some ideas for how to take apart the tasks that are needed to help this person build the soft skills, and how to be able to stay on task, how to figure out take apart the task so someone can be successful. And also they provide some nice little tools and apps that you can try out. So, that’s it.

Rick Sizemore: That is awesome, thank you so much Cherie, always a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Anne Hudlow: The WWRC foundation is grateful for the continued assistance that we receive in support of the center. Additionally, we extend our gratitude to our wonderful partners in podcasting who made this episode possible. Aladdin Foods.

Rick Sizemore: Career Pathways for Individuals with Disabilities.

Anne Hudlow: Community foundation of central Blue Ridge.

Rick Sizemore: The Counsel of State Administrators of Vocational Rehabilitation.

Anne Hudlow: CVS Health. Dominion Energy.

Rick Sizemore: Can’t forget our friends at the Global Impact Today Radio Network with Deb Ruh and all her team.

Anne Hudlow: That’s right, and we have the Hershey Chocolate Company. Jessie Ball DuPont Fund. United Bank. Valley 2 Virginia Grant. Virginia Manufactures Association.

Rick Sizemore: And we’re always appreciative of our partners at the Virginia Voice who broadcast these episodes.

Anne Hudlow: And last but not least, Wellsfargo.

Rick Sizemore: Well, it’s been another great show, and thanks for all that you and the foundation are doing. The one thing we’d really like for you to do is go out and sign up for the newsletter, and Anne, how can folks find out more?

Anne Hudlow: Absolutely, we have an e-newsletter that comes out every two months. We would love to have you involved with that. Please join us by signing up at our website at

Rick Sizemore: Until next time, I’m Rick Sizemore.

Anne Hudlow: And I’m Anne Hudlow.

Rick Sizemore: With the Courageous stories of vocational rehabilitation.