Transcript

VR Workforce Studio Singers:  Singing V-R Workforce Studio.

Daniel Schmidt:  These jobs are here to stay. And if you know what you’re doing, they pay well. If you are looking to start a new direction in life, I would heavily consider this.

Jake Hart:  Four, three, two, one. VR Workforce Studio, podcasting the sparks that ignite vocational rehabilitation through the inspiring stories of people with disabilities who have gone to work.

Flora Frazier:  Working in a field that I understand.

Jake Hart:  As well as the professionals who have helped them.

James Hall:  A job and a career, you got to look at how life-changing this is.

Jake Hart:  And the businesses who have filled their talent pipelines with workers that happen to have disabilities.

Debby Hopkins:  To help expand registered apprenticeship.

Jake Hart:  These are their stories.

Megan Healy:  Because there’s such a great story to tell about people with disabilities.

Jake Hart:  Now, here are the hosts of the VR Workforce Studio, Rick Sizemore and Betsy Civilette.

Rick Sizemore: Episode 127 of the VR Workforce Studio podcast, the owner, the apprentice, and the expert celebrating National Apprenticeship Week throughout November. We’re delighted to welcome Josh Cook from Phoenix Plumbing, along with his star apprentice, Daniel Schmidt, and Aline Jackson-Diggs who spearheaded the efforts through vocational rehabilitation to develop a registered apprenticeship for Daniel at Phoenix. Let’s start with Josh Cook. Thank you for joining us today.

Josh Cook:  Thank you.

Rick Sizemore:  Josh, to set the stage for the story, tell us about Phoenix Plumbing.

Josh Cook:  Phoenix Plumbing, we’ve been in business for three and a half years. We service Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia. We build commercial spaces, schools, offices, and it’s a pretty robust economy in the D.C area. There’s a lot of government support and government… and it’s pretty busy. It’s a blessing.

Betsy Civilette:  Are there any challenges today though, in finding and keeping qualified staff in the plumbing industry?

Josh Cook:  Yes, it’s competitive simply because there’s a shortage of labor right? There’s more guys in retirement. I believe the average age is somewhere in the 50s for people that do our type of work, and there’s just less people coming in than are going out. So it’s competitive, which is great for the employee because we have pretty high wages in general.

Rick Sizemore:  Tell us, Josh, if you would, how did you become interested in working with Virginia Department for Aging and Rehab and employing individuals with disabilities?

Josh Cook:  There’s a personal element to it. Members of my family and myself, I’ve had different struggles and issues throughout their lives, and it’s kind of like a way to help. It’s also pragmatic right? People need work. They need to be able to be productive, and the way to work through certain things is to do esteemable stuff right?

Rick Sizemore:  That’s great.

Josh Cook:  I’ve had a huge benefit from construction in general. I was never pointed in that direction when I was young. It was always college, and that’s fine, whatever path you take, but I get a lot of satisfaction from being able to have tangible results of what I’ve done throughout my workday.

Betsy Civilette:  What value do you see in having a registered apprentice like Daniel at Phoenix Plumbing, and how does this benefit both your company and Daniel’s career development?

Josh Cook:  It gives him an opportunity to once licensed, that’s essentially a business license right? You become a skilled tradesman. You can start your own business. You could go back and forth between different companies at high rates of pay. It benefits him in a lot of ways. It also helps our company in that people are more qualified. Certain jurisdictions, especially in this area, require licensed people on job sites, and it adds value. And the more licensed guys we have, the more we can charge, the more service we can provide.

Betsy Civilette:  It’s pragmatic for sure.

Josh Cook:  Yeah. It sounds like I’m being altruistic, but-

Rick Sizemore:  Well, after all, it is a business and vocational rehabilitation is all about helping not only people with disabilities get into the workforce, but supplying great workers to companies like Phoenix Plumbing. There seems to be a unique partnership between Phoenix, the registered apprenticeship program and vocational rehabilitation. What was it like working as part of a team to bring this apprenticeship opportunity on board at Phoenix?

Josh Cook:  I would say that it was infinitely more doable because of Aline’s efforts. She has been amazing with contact and keeping me on the ball, and it was pretty simple, pretty simple. I think it’s been neat. It gives us a path to give people licensing and get more skilled tradesmen, and she facilitated that well. I can’t say enough nice things.

Rick Sizemore: She’s right on the line here. Aline Jackson-Diggs, of course, with Virginia Department for Aging Rehabilitative Services and the Pathways grant. Tell us, if you would, Aline, in terms of just this discussion, how did you help facilitate the development of the registered apprenticeship and what kind of incentives is DARS providing to Phoenix and Daniel?

Aline Jackson-Diggs:  First of all, thank you Josh and Daniel for making my job easy. You guys had everything in place for me and I kind of walked into it. And I’ll first start with just sharing my role. I am the registered apprenticeship liaison. I work for the Pathways to Careers grant. It’s a demonstration grant and its mission is to employ individuals with disabilities in high wage, high demand jobs. My role is registered apprenticeship, so I’m embedded with the registered apprenticeship division of the Department of Workforce Development and Advancement.

So basically, once Daniel shared that he wanted to become an apprentice with Josh’s company, they came to me. I helped facilitate the relationship with the registered Apprenticeship division, introduced them to Tamson Six, who was the education specialist. She helped set up the apprenticeship. We got Daniel registered as an apprentice, and from there, it’s been great. What Josh said about me keeping him on track, Daniel has kept me on track because he’s been in the forefront of his RTI, which is the related training instruction part of apprenticeship. And Doris has provided funding for that training, so he opted for that support in that area, and he’s on top of it. He’s ready to register for his next class while he’s still in his first class. So kudos to you guys.

Betsy Civilette:  Great progress. Well, thank you, Aline. We’ll move on to Daniel. Daniel, can you share your story of how you became involved in this apprenticeship and how it’s helping you achieve your career goals?

Daniel Schmidt:  I think the easiest way to say is I was incarcerated for a long period of time, and Josh is an old friend of mine, and I stayed in contact with him through the years, and I was in talks with them. I was considering going into HVAC as they had some certification where I was, and he said, “You might be making the wrong choice, because if I could go back in time and pick which trade I would go into, I would still choose plumbing. This is the path.” So when I was released, I went to work for him and kudos to him for taking me on with no formal training, but I quickly realized the more… education is the way, the more I know, the more I can do, the more I can help the people underneath me, and the more I can help Josh’s business grow.

Rick Sizemore:  Well, that is such a great story. You had this experience in your life of being incarcerated. You had this friend, he gave you a job as a helper, but then you quickly moved with the help of DARS into this apprenticeship. What was it like working with Aline to get this apprenticeship off and running?

Daniel Schmidt:  I mean, it was clear from the first time we spoke on the phone that she was in my corner and definitely wanted me to succeed. And you could feel that from her. So thank you, Aline. Anytime I had a question or issue, I could always contact her. She got right back to me and she made it clear that she wanted this to work, and she was going to do everything she could to make it happen.

Betsy Civilette:  So can you share with us a little more about your personal journey and the challenges you’ve overcome as you’ve gotten back into the workforce?

Daniel Schmidt:  Well, I was a drug user for a number of years. I don’t know, it’s an epidemic in America, substance abuse disorder, addiction, alcoholism. And mine was kind of left untreated unfortunately. And it took some rather heavy consequences for me to realize that I had no future in what I was doing, and I need to try a different way. And luckily for me, Josh and another friend of mine were able to show me the way. Without them, I’m not sure where I would be.

Rick Sizemore:  And I’m told you have several years of sobriety under your belt now?

Daniel Schmidt:  Yes, over eight at this point almost. Coming up on eight and a half shortly.

Betsy Civilette:  Wow. Congratulations.

Daniel Schmidt:  Thank you. I appreciate it.

Rick Sizemore:  And moving back into the workforce. What’s unique about the relationship with Phoenix and Josh that’s helping you succeed as an apprentice?

Daniel Schmidt:  I think something I’m grateful for is the fact that he’s my boss, but that hasn’t changed our interpersonal dynamic. We’re still friends first, I think, and that’s really important to me because it’s important to have people who care about you in your life.

Betsy Civilette:  Absolutely. Well, what advice would you give to others, particularly those with disabilities or have faced similar challenges as you about using vocational rehabilitation and registered apprenticeships to enter the workforce and build a new life?

Daniel Schmidt:  I think one of the biggest things as far as a career path or when considering a potential career path is the longevity. And in this case, in terms of the trades in particular, AI is not replacing that. A computer is not going to crawl up under a house and re-pipe it or… these jobs are here to stay. And if you know what you’re doing, they pay well. If you are looking to start a new direction in life, I would heavily consider this.

Rick Sizemore:  Everyone needs water. But I’ve got a question back for Josh. Is Daniel a good plumber?

Josh Cook:  He’s getting there. He’s learning fast. What Daniel has that a lot of people don’t enter in is he’s highly motivated right? So he’s on time every day. He studies at night, he goes to school, he’s constantly improving.

Rick Sizemore:  Aline, as you reflect on this apprenticeship, what seems most important to you?

Aline Jackson-Diggs:  Honestly, I want to say that I am so excited about your future, Daniel. I have no doubt that you’re going to be a sponsor as well. Not to take you away from Phoenix by any means, but I see you owning your own business in the future and helping others as you have been helped. And Josh, you started the process because that’s all we need is just an opportunity to have someone prove themselves. And I thank you. You have made… honestly, you guys, you gave me so much credit, but again, I have to re-emphasize that I can do nothing without you guys, and you led the way, so I appreciate it.

Rick Sizemore:  In the end, it is a partnership between vocational rehabilitation and business and industry for people with disabilities. This is just a great case of how everything works. Josh Cook operates Phoenix Plumbing where Daniel Schmidt is an apprentice. They come to us from their operation in Northern Virginia an Aline Jackson-Diggs assists people with disabilities and businesses in setting up registered apprenticeships through vocational rehabilitation. She joins us from Richmond. Thank you all for being with us today.

Daniel Schmidt: Thank you.

Aline Jackson-Diggs:  Thank you.

Josh Cook:  Take care.

Rick Sizemore:  And now, an important reflection from the Commissioner of the Rehabilitation Services Administration, Dante Allen.

Dante Allen:  As we celebrate National Apprenticeship Week, we recognize the incredible opportunities being created through partnerships between vocational rehabilitation and registered apprenticeship programs like those at Phoenix Plumbing. Employment is more than just a job. It’s how we define our purpose and connect with the world. For individuals with disabilities, this partnership opens the door to careers that provide family sustaining wages and meaningful work. Whether you’re unsure of your marketable skills or just exploring new possibilities, vocational rehabilitation is here to help. The potential is limitless, especially with assistive technology and artificial intelligence unlocking opportunities we never imagined possible. Now, more than ever, businesses are discovering the untapped talent within the disability community. Together we are transforming lives, strengthening businesses, and creating a brighter future for everyone.

Rick Sizemore:  To find a vocational rehabilitation program in your area, visit rsa.ed.gov/about/states, or simply find the information in the show notes at vrworkforcestudio.com episode 127. Well, next we welcome nationally acclaimed registered apprenticeship expert Debby Hopkins with Appteon Incorporated, one of the US Department of Labor’s apprenticeship intermediaries. Welcome to the podcast, Debby.

Debby Hopkins:  Thank you, Rick. I’m very glad to be here.

Betsy Civilette:  Debby, tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you become such a well-regarded subject matter expert in the field of registered apprenticeship?

Debby Hopkins: Well, I appreciate that. Much of my career was as a vice president of human resources for high-tech companies who were experiencing the same challenges, I see today in attracting and retaining critical talent. So through managing federally funded workforce initiatives at Blue Ridge Community College and the Shenandoah Valley Workforce Development Board, I embraced the registered apprenticeship model as an excellent design, not only for the trades, which I had experienced firsthand from my father and other family members, but also for professional occupations. So for over 10 years, I’ve been promoting that companies should be aggressive about building their own talent pipeline and endorsing the registered apprenticeship model.

Rick Sizemore:  Yeah, well, we’re celebrating, of course, National Apprenticeship Week this month, and apprenticeships have become increasingly important, especially over the past few years. Why do you think that is and what makes this national celebration so significant?

Debby Hopkins:  Well, 2024 is the 10th celebration of National Apprenticeship Week, so 10 years of engagement, expansion, and innovation as the slogan goes. And National Apprenticeship Week itself is really a time to host events and share success stories and information that showcase the value of apprenticeship for strengthening our economy, and also showcasing this avenue for diversifying and having a more inclusive pathway to high-paying, high in-demand apprenticeships. So really why I think it’s so important is that for 10 years, the Department of Labor has invested in intermediaries. They’ve had many, many different grants that have been awarded to try to raise this value, and the Apprenticeship Week is just a time to showcase the results of that.

Betsy Civilette:  Debby, tell us what exciting opportunities are available for people looking at apprenticeships as a career pathway, and why is this particularly relevant for people with disabilities?

Debby Hopkins:  One of the most important attributes, I think that is inherent in a company who is a sponsor of a registered apprenticeship program is that they have a culture of training. They have this culture because they want to invest in individuals. And so for folks who are looking for a pathway who might need some extra support or who might just want to be sure that they’re aligned with a company that is investing in the workforce including for people with disabilities, apprenticeship is kind of a checkmark when you’re screening for opportunities. I’ll point out a couple of good examples, and we can talk about the types of different apprenticeships later, but one company that is a very, very strong advocate of apprenticeship is Lockheed Martin. And you might not think that an aerospace engineer can be attained through apprenticeship, but it can. IT project manager, operations management, these are all apprenticeship programs at Lockheed Martin, one of our partners.

Rick Sizemore:  Wow.

Debby Hopkins:  There are also entry opportunities as well, and that is for help desk, for application developer. Many opportunities can be attained through apprenticeship.

Rick Sizemore: So across the spectrum of their entire workforce, they’ve integrated registered apprenticeships?

Debby Hopkins:  Yes, and the reason that they do this and also that so many other companies who have this training program, and not just companies, nonprofit, private, individuals, public entities, it is because they can have a structure to their training. They will have a mentor assigned, they’ll have wage increases that are awarded when competencies are obtained. And through this structured model, you are created in a little cocoon of evolution from what you know to what you can be and what you can be from a career standpoint. It’s really a terrific model.

Rick Sizemore: And all this is on a fast track for someone who may be wanting to go from not employed to a really good salary. It seems like such a fast route to get there.

Debby Hopkins:  Yes, it can absolutely be. And you can even have multiple apprenticeships. So you could start in a very entry level, master that, and let’s say in IT occupations often that’s only one year. A cybersecurity technician is a one year competency based apprenticeship. From that, they could go into a higher level apprenticeship if the company supports it.

Rick Sizemore: Well from your perspective, what are the current best practices for individuals entering apprenticeships and for businesses who are sponsoring them, and how has that landscape changed across the years?

Debby Hopkins:  Well, this is my biggest message I think. I do a lot of speaking, and one of the biggest messages out there for the tech industry or industries that are new to apprenticeship is that they can participate in apprenticeship without having to become their own sponsor. There is a multi employer group apprenticeship model that is the fast track in tech industries or other organizations that are new to apprenticeship.

In this way, you connect with an employer, let’s say in Virginia, there’s a fantastic program called Smoothstack. Smoothstack is a multi employer group program where employers can connect, hire their talent. They stay on Smoothstack’s payroll through the apprenticeship. Other models, Franklin Apprenticeships has another national and Virginia program. They have a slightly different model where they will train the individuals. They have a strong pre-apprenticeship program. They’ve had a number of people with disabilities through their program, and the employer will then be the… not just the on the job training, but the employer of record. So there are several different models. You do not have to be your own sponsor in order to hire well-trained, work ready, aggressive to go, ready to go candidates for your talented… the talent that you need in the organization.

Betsy Civilette: Well, Debby, you are recognized as an authority on apprenticeships and also serve as an industry intermediary. What is your key message for those who are interested in getting involved and where would you direct them to learn more?

Debby Hopkins:  Yes, Betsy, there have been a lot of investments and there are a lot more subject matter experts available now than there were 10 years ago. Matter of fact, it can be a little bit confusing if you just start searching broadly. So what my suggestion is to go to the apprenticeship.gov. Apprenticeship.gov is the resource. They have an academy called the Registered Apprenticeship Academy that has been just expertly crafted with many different areas of resource, no matter whether you’re an individual looking for opportunities, you’re an agency looking to figure out how you can connect, if you’re a business looking at what are the different ways you can participate in apprenticeship, if you’re an intermediary looking at all of the other workforce partners and how they should integrate.

The Registered Apprenticeship Academy is the best place to go. For individuals or groups who know a little bit more about apprenticeship and they just want to figure out how to get started, there are 20 Department of Labor funded intermediaries like Appteon that are geared toward just about every industry that you can think of. We are IT, cybersecurity, and all things tech. There are some for manufacturing, for education. There’s a big push now for teacher apprenticeships, for early childhood apprenticeships. There is a DOL funded industry intermediary for just about every industry or occupation. And those intermediaries provide free services to help you wherever you are to achieve your goals in apprenticeship.

Rick Sizemore:  We’d like to finish up with reflections from your career. Have a favorite story?

Debby Hopkins: I still follow Marvin on Facebook. Marvin is I feel that this example is the wonderful example of how agencies can work together. And so Marvin was an individual who was in the Wilson Workforce Rehabilitation program through Virginia DARS, and he was deaf, really wanted to work in industrial manufacturing, really wanted to work at Hershey. We were able with a lot of effort to put together a pre-apprenticeship program first with DARS and with another funding they had, and then get Hershey, The Hershey Company to hire their employees, some of them from this pre-apprenticeship program. And then when they hired them directly, they would register them as apprentices. So Marvin has just one of the best stories. It always warms my heart, and that is one of the episodes that you have in your library.

Rick Sizemore:  Thank you so much for that. It’s been such a pleasure.

Betsy Civilette: And he’s still working at Hershey?

Rick Sizemore:  Yep.

Debby Hopkins:  Yes, as far as I know. I haven’t messaged him for a while, but I am watching him. It changed his life. He met his wife there and has babies, and the posts are just… every time I read his post, I’m just reminded of putting that together, my little piece of putting that together, how that was life-changing for him and for hundreds of other people. Hershey embraced this in the level of hundreds.

Rick Sizemore: The last time I spoke with Marvin in an interview, he said, “Yeah, and I’m making more than you are.”

Debby Hopkins:  Oh, well, because he’s working overtime. That’s the thing about Hershey. If you are willing to work the overtime and you’re disciplined, which he proved that he was, and I didn’t say it, but you can say it. He taught sign language to the line leaders. In a loud environment, that was extremely helpful to teach a little bit about what they needed to know. No, I still love that story. And I’ve been asked, by… gosh, I’ve been asked by the ETA probably five or six times to speak about pre-apprenticeship and every time I bring this up.

Rick Sizemore: That’s amazing. Well, Debby Hopkins-

Betsy Civilette:  That’s wonderful.

Rick Sizemore:  Debby Hopkins is certainly an industry-leading expert and intermediary subject matter expert. It’s nice to have you on our podcast.

Debby Hopkins:  I’m delighted, Rick. Thanks for inviting me.

Rick Sizemore:  Well, it’s time for our national clearinghouse report with the always entertaining and informative Heather Servais. Welcome to the podcast, Heather.

Heather Servais:  Hi, Rick. Good to see you.

Rick Sizemore: It’s November. We’re celebrating apprenticeships and vocational rehabilitation. What do you have for us in the clearinghouse?

Heather Servais:  I have a lot of great materials for you today about apprenticeships and VR. The first is an NCRTM curated list on inclusive apprenticeships and the curated list features more than 15 resources all focused on inclusive apprenticeships. It includes videos, toolkits, trainings, podcasts, and success stories to support individuals with disabilities, VR professionals, and general audiences in creating and benefiting from apprenticeship programs. These resources really highlight the strategies and practical tools and best practices for building diverse and accessible career pathways through apprenticeship. The second resource I have for you is a rural youth apprenticeship toolkit from the Institute for Community Inclusion. And this toolkit provides resources to support the development of apprenticeship programs for youth with disabilities in rural areas. It shares strategies to address key challenges like transportation, internet access, and employer engagement. The toolkit also includes tools for marketing and outreach, promoting diversity and inclusion, and building partnerships.

So that’s my favorite part of these toolkits is this marketing and outreach and these tools that you can use right away. This toolkit also includes a lot about the roles that VR agencies play in developing and supporting apprenticeship programs in the rural communities. So it really highlights that role and talks about those program implementation and how to develop those programs and ensures that these programs are accessible, inclusive, and aligned with both the needs of the local employers and individuals with disabilities. The next resource I have is a step-by-step apprenticeship implementation guide from the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center on Quality Employment, lovingly known as VRTAC-QE. This guide provides a framework for developing and enhancing these apprenticeship programs for job seekers with disabilities, and it goes over all three phases of apprenticeship implementation. So everything from the pre-planning and planning to the implementation and the maintenance.

There are some really great worksheets and brainstorming tools that are included in the guide so that VR agencies can really work through these steps, all with the support of the guide. And then the final resource I have for you today is called the Apprenticeship Journey, a framework for advancing an equitable and inclusive apprenticeship system. And this is from HHS. This framework is a visual representation of individuals experiences and processes and needs, as well as their perceptions through their engagement with the apprenticeship system. So from the time of first awareness of apprenticeship opportunities, all through the completion of an apprenticeship and thinking about the next steps of their career. And so this framework really can help practitioners and partners across the apprenticeship system to examine the different paths that individuals travel to access and participate and complete apprenticeship programs.

Rick Sizemore:  Heather Servais directs RSA’s National Clearinghouse of Rehabilitation Training Materials and joins us each month for the clearinghouse report. Links and resources from the NCRTM are included in the show notes at vrworkforcestudio.com. Thanks Heather.

Heather Servais:  Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Rick.

Rick Sizemore:  Well, thank you for getting involved in today’s show. If you or someone you know has a disability and wants to get into the workforce, vocational rehabilitation may just be the answer to kick start your career. Visit us at vrworkforcestudio.com to find links and resources as well as our contact information. On behalf of my co-host, Betsy Civilette, I’m Rick Sizemore inviting you to join us as we podcast the sparks that ignite vocational rehabilitation.

Jake Hart:  The VR Workforce Studio Podcast is owned and operated by Vocational Rehabilitation’s Partners in Podcasting. Audio content for the podcast is provided to VR Partners in Podcasting by the Virginia Department for Aging and Rehabilitative Services in exchange for promotional considerations.